Boo Khaki Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 Our manager has a serious eyesight problem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Panzer Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 Quite simply one of the best attacking teams in the league completely undermined by one of the worst defences. The defence needs ripped up and started again next year and we can look to improve on what will have been an impressive top 6 finish - or more likely a still impressive but not quite as impressive first season back in the top flight. The Doc also needs to say something to us that proves he is willing to learn from this as it’s completely soul destroying at this point. It could always be worse though - could be a DAB and in the championship. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LM_0803 Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 7 minutes ago, Der Panzer said: Quite simply one of the best attacking teams in the league completely undermined by one of the worst defences. The defence needs ripped up and started again next year and we can look to improve on what will have been an impressive top 6 finish - or more likely a still impressive but not quite as impressive first season back in the top flight. The Doc also needs to say something to us that proves he is willing to learn from this as it’s completely soul destroying at this point. It could always be worse though - could be a DAB and in the championship. Don't think there's any point in mentioning united here mate, they won today and will no doubt be up again next season...we shit the bed big time today and no doubt Doc will be saying we'll learn from the mistakes. Time and time again either his subs or lack of them, (today it was both) have killed us. Lack of pace at the back also killed us as Shaughnessy and Donnelly were bullied by Bair. Should hold their heads in shame. Get Donnelly out of the team for rangers and get Lamie back in, not that I'm his biggest fan either. Bakayoko, Mccowan and Cameron were wastes of jerseys in the second half imo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 The fixture list means that even though we’re currently in the top 6, we need at least a point from our next 2 games to have any chance of staying there. A win secures it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LM_0803 Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 14 minutes ago, The Master said: The fixture list means that even though we’re currently in the top 6, we need at least a point from our next 2 games to have any chance of staying there. A win secures it. Gonna be one nervous game at Pittodrie next Saturday. Never get a better chance to break our hoodoo up there. Should've had it done with today, look forward to hearing and more importantly seeing how Doc is going to change things. Cameron, mccowan and bakayoko did nothing after our 2nd, and he waited until we were losing to make another change. If I was a reporter I'd be asking Doc about his lack of subs. Especially when tiffoney was undeservedly hooked with bakayoko staying on. Absolute joke of a second half. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Panzer Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 30 minutes ago, LM_0803 said: Don't think there's any point in mentioning united here mate, they won today and will no doubt be up again next season...we shit the bed big time today and no doubt Doc will be saying we'll learn from the mistakes. Time and time again either his subs or lack of them, (today it was both) have killed us. Lack of pace at the back also killed us as Shaughnessy and Donnelly were bullied by Bair. Should hold their heads in shame. Get Donnelly out of the team for rangers and get Lamie back in, not that I'm his biggest fan either. Bakayoko, Mccowan and Cameron were wastes of jerseys in the second half imo. I’m as pissed off as anyone today - and I’m not a happy clapper by any stretch but when we look back at this season I think the consensus should be… Ach we are a young team with an inexperienced manager (in terms of management jobs). We have came up and throughout the season probably overperformed any of our fans expectations for a first season up. Mistakes have been made and repeated - if that happens into next season we can get our panties right in a bunch but for me I still back the Doc to learn and continue to do well in the transfer market. Overall it’s a solid season for a newly promoted side. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LM_0803 Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 3 minutes ago, Der Panzer said: I’m as pissed off as anyone today - and I’m not a happy clapper by any stretch but when we look back at this season I think the consensus should be… Ach we are a young team with an inexperienced manager (in terms of management jobs). We have came up and throughout the season probably overperformed any of our fans expectations for a first season up. Mistakes have been made and repeated - if that happens into next season we can get our panties right in a bunch but for me I still back the Doc to learn and continue to do well in the transfer market. Overall it’s a solid season for a newly promoted side. Agree, a solid enough season but in the context of dropping points and being so close to the top 6, to not get it at this stage, i can't help but feel disappointed. Listen in 14/15 we got it unexpectedly and slowly declined until relegation. Would rather that isn't the case again so would be happy with some mid table stability but football is about winning and we've thrown it away far too many times - whether we're newly promoted or not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 23 points dropped from winning positions says it all. That lies squarely at the manager's door. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigmouth Strikes Again Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 Would play Sylla and Boateng in centre mid v the arse cheek, midfield is far too lightweight. IMO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 Ok.. simple yes or no, are you hitting the top six? btw, even if you don't I think you will, you've had an incredible season and should be well proud of your team. ...but yeah, at this very moment, what is your gut feeling? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Panzer Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 6 minutes ago, Ric said: Ok.. simple yes or no, are you hitting the top six? btw, even if you don't I think you will, you've had an incredible season and should be well proud of your team. ...but yeah, at this very moment, what is your gut feeling? No. Bottled it today. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 3 minutes ago, Der Panzer said: No. Bottled it today. You have to consider the game against Rangers as a "free hit", it's your game in hand and they are pushing for the title. I think you can take Aberdeen in that final game before the split, and you only need a draw. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LM_0803 Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 3 minutes ago, Ric said: You have to consider the game against Rangers as a "free hit", it's your game in hand and they are pushing for the title. I think you can take Aberdeen in that final game before the split, and you only need a draw. We'll get nothing from rangers and if hibs win then we need to aswell. For that reason, I don't believe we'll get top 6. We've not lost against them this season so far but I don't back us to go there and get the win we need. Defence far too open and exposed, and we're too lightweight in midfield. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 2 minutes ago, LM_0803 said: .. and if hibs win then we need to aswell. You are totally right, I said a draw was all you need but that GD might catch you out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caballero Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 37 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: 23 points dropped from winning positions says it all. That lies squarely at the manager's door. It’s not really like that though is it? as someone else said, first season back up we are doing very well. Personally, I hope the Rangers game gets called off, we tell them it’s being played on the 16th or 17th, as it could have been played this week, but they chose not too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Play Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 44 minutes ago, Ric said: Ok.. simple yes or no, are you hitting the top six? btw, even if you don't I think you will, you've had an incredible season and should be well proud of your team. ...but yeah, at this very moment, what is your gut feeling? I think if we have the same line up as today for the Rangers game we will get a hiding. Not enough strength in that line up for games against Rangers and the like. I think we will then get a draw at Aberdeen which will not be enough as I think Hibs will beat Motherwell. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 (edited) 2 hours ago, Caballero said: It’s not really like that though is it? as someone else said, first season back up we are doing very well. Personally, I hope the Rangers game gets called off, we tell them it’s being played on the 16th or 17th, as it could have been played this week, but they chose not too. If you are measuring the season so far by pre-season hopes whereby most of us would have been happy to accept 10th, then yes, it's an enormously satisfying season so far. However, you can do well and still underachieve in certain respects. No team that surrenders that many points from winning positions can pretend they don't have a major, glaring problem, and since it occurs in more or less exactly the same way every single time, it's perfectly reasonable to ask why it isn't being addressed. That old thing about "insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results". It's indefensible. Whether you blame the players, Docherty, or a bit of both, the fact is most people watching are seeing the same pattern of events over and over, to the point whereby they are completely unironically predicting it, and lo and behold it plays out exactly as predicted. Now if folk in the stands can see the problem, why does our coaching staff persist with doing the exact same thing over and over when the outcome is the same over and over? If we'd clung on to just half of the points we've thrown away, we'd be sitting in a comfortable 4th, Docherty would be a shoo-in for Manager of the Year, and everyone would be ecstatic about a fantastic season, rather than just pleased with a satisfying one. A lot has been made about how ineffectual and inconsistent the play is from our forwards, yet from where I'm sitting the reason we aren't far higher up the table than we are already is not because we aren't scoring goals, it's because we can't take the heat out of games where the opponent is throwing everything at us. If we want to think about where to improve in the off-season, sorting that out will yield far bigger results than changing one or two players up front. The daft thing is, it's not really one goal leads we struggle with. The reasons for this are debatable, but it seems clear to me that just as things are at 0-0, teams don't get overly ambitious when playing against us because they respect our ability to get up the field quickly and cut them open. This doesn't change much at 1-0, but as soon as it goes 2-0 or 3-0, this forces opponents to throw caution to the wind and chuck everything at us, whereupon our lightweight, undermanned midfield becomes totally overrun because the WB's drop into a 5, and 3 guys are left trying to deal with a 4 or 5 man midfield when there is also a CB stepping up and FB's bombing on. It's sometimes 3 v 6 in Midfield, and it's absolutely ridiculous to suggest that's a player mentality problem. It's no wonder at all we end up playing with a string of 5 across the back and barely get a touch of the ball. Yet it simply is not a problem at 0-0 or even 1-0, because opponents don't throw the kitchen sink at us while scores are level or one goal different. The exception really is the games against the OF, where they tend to just attack us relentlessly anyway, and I think it's quite telling that our system that copes with most sides in the Premier has so far caved in completely v's the OF. That's entirely consistent with what happens when those other sides go all-out attack. Edited April 6 by Boo Khaki 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifespud Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 43 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said: If you are measuring the season so far by pre-season hopes whereby most of us would have been happy to accept 10th, then yes, it's an enormously satisfying season so far. However, you can do well and still underachieve in certain respects. No team that surrenders that many points from winning positions can pretend they don't have a major, glaring problem, and since it occurs in more or less exactly the same way every single time, it's perfectly reasonable to ask why it isn't being addressed. That old thing about "insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results". It's indefensible. Whether you blame the players, Docherty, or a bit of both, the fact is most people watching are seeing the same pattern of events over and over, to the point whereby they are completely unironically predicting it, and lo and behold it plays out exactly as predicted. Now if folk in the stands can see the problem, why does our coaching staff persist with doing the exact same thing over and over when the outcome is the same over and over? If we'd clung on to just half of the points we've thrown away, we'd be sitting in a comfortable 4th, Docherty would be a shoo-in for Manager of the Year, and everyone would be ecstatic about a fantastic season, rather than just pleased with a satisfying one. A lot has been made about how ineffectual and inconsistent the play is from our forwards, yet from where I'm sitting the reason we aren't far higher up the table than we are already is not because we aren't scoring goals, it's because we can't take the heat out of games where the opponent is throwing everything at us. If we want to think about where to improve in the off-season, sorting that out will yield far bigger results than changing one or two players up front. The daft thing is, it's not really one goal leads we struggle with. The reasons for this are debatable, but it seems clear to me that just as things are at 0-0, teams don't get overly ambitious when playing against us because they respect our ability to get up the field quickly and cut them open. This doesn't change much at 1-0, but as soon as it goes 2-0 or 3-0, this forces opponents to throw caution to the wind and chuck everything at us, whereupon our lightweight, undermanned midfield becomes totally overrun because the WB's drop into a 5, and 3 guys are left trying to deal with a 4 or 5 man midfield when there is also a CB stepping up and FB's bombing on. It's sometimes 3 v 6 in Midfield, and it's absolutely ridiculous to suggest that's a player mentality problem. It's no wonder at all we end up playing with a string of 5 across the back and barely get a touch of the ball. Yet it simply is not a problem at 0-0 or even 1-0, because opponents don't throw the kitchen sink at us while scores are level or one goal different. The exception really is the games against the OF, where they tend to just attack us relentlessly anyway, and I think it's quite telling that our system that copes with most sides in the Premier has so far caved in completely v's the OF. That's entirely consistent with what happens when those other sides go all-out attack. Good assessment imo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peebles_Dee Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 McCracken McGhee Portales Donnelly Costelloe Sylla Boateng McCowan Cameron Bakayoko Tiffoney Shaughnessy simply too slow. Has no noticeable attributes. Cameron better in forward positions. Boateng harsh to get dropped but in fairness Sylla has been class. Mellon is a great player but it's not working for him. If you watch his Morcambe highlights, he plays in a totally different style and he doesn't get the same chances through on goal as he did in league two. 3 new players/signings added to the team I think should start against Aberdeen and I think will get Europe next season for sure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifespud Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 25 minutes ago, peebles_Dee said: McCracken McGhee Portales Donnelly Costelloe Sylla Boateng McCowan Cameron Bakayoko Tiffoney Shaughnessy simply too slow. Has no noticeable attributes. Cameron better in forward positions. Boateng harsh to get dropped but in fairness Sylla has been class. Mellon is a great player but it's not working for him. If you watch his Morcambe highlights, he plays in a totally different style and he doesn't get the same chances through on goal as he did in league two. 3 new players/signings added to the team I think should start against Aberdeen and I think will get Europe next season for sure. I think the criticism of Big Joe is a bit over the top tbh. Donnelly was easily our worst player today. We were thin on the bench today with Main and Mulligan out. Lamie (although I’m not his greatest fan) starts over Donnelly when fit. More worrying is lack of game time for Astley. Have we paid money for a dud? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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