D TOTAL Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 I thought the Scott Fraser one was dead in the water 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peebles_Dee Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 43 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said: I can't see Docherty binning the back 3. It served us well last season and he's pretty much built his squad around it for this season. Can see the argument in ditching it until Robertson is back but still can't see Docherty doing so. Robertson can’t play in the centre. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo*1 Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 1 minute ago, peebles_Dee said: Robertson can’t play in the centre. I didn't say he could? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dundee-FC92 Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 (edited) That's the St Johnstone fuds been given their first turning over of the season anyway. We'll have to do well to finish below them. I walked out the ground yesterday gutted we didn't win after Mains miss but on reflection and watching back the highlights there we could've easily been 3 - 1 down. Some of our defending is beyond painful - Hearts, Hibs and St Mirren next. In a match where we had two centre backs playing who would he nowhere near first choice we managed to get a point. We're only going to get stronger but hard work is needed to make us more solid. On the evidence of last seasons results against top six standard teams we'll be lucky to walk out the next three games with any more than one win. Thank you. Edited August 5 by Dundee-FC92 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrydode25 Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 41 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said: I can't see Docherty binning the back 3. It served us well last season and he's pretty much built his squad around it for this season. Can see the argument in ditching it until Robertson is back but still can't see Docherty doing so. It served us well in the first half of last season but after the winter break it was absolutely horrendous and teams throttled us when using it, it was proven when we switched to 4 at the back in matches we then managed to get a better hold of matches, and that was no coincidence against Annan a fortnight ago and most importantly again yesterday better opposition, we have to have a better plan than just sticking with 5 at the back and hoping for the best until it goes wrong. Otherwise that joint 2nd worst defensive record we ended up with last season will quickly become reality again. It's our biggest problem at the moment lessons look like they haven't been learned from last season. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrydode25 Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 1 minute ago, Dundee-FC92 said: That's the St Johnstone fuds been given their first turning over of the season anyway. We'll have to do well to finish below them. I walked out the ground yesterday gutted we didn't win after Mains miss but on reflection and watching back the highlights there we could've easily been 3 - 1 down. In a match where we had two centre backs playing who would he nowhere near first choice we managed to get a point. We're only going to get stronger. Thank you. Could have easily been 3,4 or 5 -1 down with the clear sights at goal they had before we got going in the last 13 minutes, I come away thinking what does this season hold if we don't sort that shambles out at the back ASAP. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo*1 Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 1 minute ago, derrydode25 said: It served us well in the first half of last season but after the winter break it was absolutely horrendous and teams throttled us when using it, it was proven when we switched to 4 at the back in matches we then managed to get a better hold of matches, and that was no coincidence against Annan a fortnight ago and most importantly again yesterday better opposition, we have to have a better plan than just sticking with 5 at the back and hoping for the best until it goes wrong. Otherwise that joint 2nd worst defensive record we ended up with last season will quickly become reality again. It's our biggest problem at the moment lessons look like they haven't been learned from last season. We finished top 6 so it evidently wasn't 'absolutely horrendous'. I think it's clear that the 4-3-3 is our plan B. And I don't disagree, it has looked much preferable when we are chasing the game but I still can't see Docherty ditching the formation he's built a squad for 1 game into a season. He's not James McPake! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydun Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 We relied heavily on goals from midfield last season as we didn't have a poacher up top, we look like we have at least 2 now. I think Doc has been preparing for McCowan to go and changing how we play without him. Bringing Murray and SPH in, alongside a fit Main means we shouldn't (on paper anyway) rely on goals from midfield as much. I think this is where Jack coming in fits. Play Jack and Sylla as holding Midfielders with Cameron/Mulligan as the attacking centre mid. Makes it more palatable to play 3 at the back with those 2 protecting that initial central area, and also leaves room for 2 up front. This is how I think it will go. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrydode25 Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 1 minute ago, Ludo*1 said: We finished top 6 so it evidently wasn't 'absolutely horrendous'. I think it's clear that the 4-3-3 is our plan B. And I don't disagree, it has looked much preferable when we are chasing the game but I still can't see Docherty ditching the formation he's built a squad for 1 game into a season. He's not James McPake! We finished Top 6 yes we did, But the formation in the end didn't work in the last Quarter of the season , it was utterly horrific to watch at times. We have the basis of a decent midfield and attack from what I see, but I've a funny feeling come the end of the window we might end up being weaker than we are right now. And that worries me big time, that defence needs sorted now. United absolutely hammered and bullied us in defence in that that first 73 minutes yesterday. We were all over the place. We can make an argument for both sides of the formation, and our next 3 league games will really set the test of whether it's going to work or not going forward. It's my biggest worry now. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mungo Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 Press the panic button 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo*1 Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 Just now, derrydode25 said: We finished Top 6 yes we did, But the formation in the end didn't work in the last Quarter of the season , it was utterly horrific to watch at times. We have the basis of a decent midfield and attack from what I see, but I've a funny feeling come the end of the window we might end up being weaker than we are right now. And that worries me big time, that defence needs sorted now. United absolutely hammered and bullied us in defence in that that first 73 minutes yesterday. We were all over the place. We can make an argument for both sides of the formation, and our next 3 league games will really set the test of whether it's going to work or not going forward. It's my biggest worry now. In the first half of the season (19 games) we gained 22 points and in the second half we gained 20. We weren't good enough against the teams that finished higher in the league than us last season but we beat the shite in the league most times like St Johnstone and Livi so maybe that's why you see the last quarter as skewed? Can't really disagree with anything else you say though. I absolutely have the same worries. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dundee-FC92 Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 8 minutes ago, derrydode25 said: Could have easily been 3,4 or 5 -1 down with the clear sights at goal they had before we got going in the last 13 minutes, I come away thinking what does this season hold if we don't sort that shambles out at the back ASAP. The only clear one they have to score is the one on one which came through amateur defending from our own set piece. Cameron was really poor but saved us there. The two goals are amateur defending aswell but the first one comes as the players are also way out of position not expecting Graham to pass it to the opposition as we were building an attack. Graham really struggled and won't start again at the weekend. It was a big call and backfired, didn't win a header all day either. He looked the part against ICT but wasn't ready yet - its been seen on matchday 1 and we can move on. McGhee isn't in our squad to be a centre back but is having to play there due to current limitations. There's 3 weeks left of the window and my thoughts are that we'll be stronger come September even if we lose McCowan. I'm still expecting four new faces along with the returning Robertson. Thought we got going the whole of the second half tbh aswell. We were still to slow in moving it around at times but looked alot more dangerous and we had the DABs chasing the ball which probably helped in them being f**ked the last twenty minutes. Anything Utd created in the second half was through our own doing. I'm positive a back four on Saturday with the likes of Mulligan starting would instantly make us look a stronger unit. Get Astley and Portales playing as out and out centre backs and see how we get on. Thank you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Bliss Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 The goals against record last season took a hammering against Celtic and Rangers compared to everyone else in the league. Take those 8 games out and it’s not as bad as is being made out against the rest. It is however number 1 priority to get sorted. As soon as Robertson got injured preseason we should’ve been getting another experienced centre half in the squad. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam899 Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 Seems clear McCowan will be away. What a player. I have full faith that the Doc will have been preparing for this. Big few weeks ahead in the market. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Bliss Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 Think he’ll go in the last week of the transfer window. Every faith in the Doc and Strachan etc to get his replacement right. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andershen Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 Yeah I can’t see him staying. Thought he looked like a player that had mentally checked out for large parts of the game on Sunday. Will be a tough one to take but can’t really blame him. But for ffs Luke, please don’t go to feckin Bolton! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydun Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 5 minutes ago, Andershen said: Yeah I can’t see him staying. Thought he looked like a player that had mentally checked out for large parts of the game on Sunday. Will be a tough one to take but can’t really blame him. But for ffs Luke, please don’t go to feckin Bolton! Good to see your input back on the thread. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrydode25 Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 4 minutes ago, Dee Bliss said: Think he’ll go in the last week of the transfer window. Every faith in the Doc and Strachan etc to get his replacement right. He'll be gone before the last week of this month, there is every opportunity His agent is drumming interest as we speak and if a decent bid comes in this week the club will accept imo and he'll be out the squad for the weekend. I've always said we rely on Luke way to much away, it's about time the club brought in other players of a similar type willing to put there foot on the ball and be the playmaker of the team. If I were us I'd be looking at seriously looming to bring in guys like scott fraser and stevie mallan especially mallan as a free agent, then there other guts were rumoured to have made offers too, like Ryan Jack and John Fleck. Whatever happens with McCowan, the club also need to prepare for potential bids for Caneron and Mulligan also especially with it being rumoured Lyal has said he will not sign a new deal and Hearts interested in Josh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo*1 Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 McCowan: Quote I am a Dundee player as it is. There has been nothing that has been put on my plate that is going to make me leave here anytime soon. I am the captain here and I need to take responsibility in each game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LM_0803 Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 Agree with the above sentiments RE mccowan and Cameron/Mulligan taking his spot further forward. Cameron further forward with the more physical and aggressive Mulligan behind beside Sylla is the way to go if LM is to leave before the window shuts. Much has been made about Shaughnessy and Robertson but I forgetting about Charlie Reilly too, another great option to have off the bench when he's back. Still think he should've got a chance last year instead of making three appearances at Gayfield. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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