All things Dundee FC

[Pens_Dark]

Just catching up with the weekend...

I'm going to sound like a broken record but we are absolutely need more experience in that defence. Koumetio is absolutely fine, inexperienced - but fine. Is Robertson back for us this weekend? I suspect if so, probably even regardless, we will switch back to 3 centre backs. Portales, Mcghee and Koumetio (Robertson back fit then I'd drop Portales and play Mcghee right side of a 3 centre back).

We're also back in a similar scenario as last season that we cannot play Mulligan and Cameron in the same team - both need carried at certain points in the game but Sylla alone can't carry both. In my opinion there was a Ryan Jack shaped hole in our midfield at the weekend that would allow Mulligan or Cameron to be forward focused. 

I thought the only positive from the weekend was that Adewumi looked pretty good when he came on. 

The defeat was coming, we can't keep shipping so many goals and relying on our attack so heavily every week. 

The positive trait of a Docherty team last season was generally that they responded to defeats/poor performances. 

Edited Monday at 12:19 by Pens_Dark

[Pens_Dark]

18 hours ago, Dee Bliss said:

Not sure how we can criticise a goalkeeper’s kick getting caught up in a very strong wind. 
 

Koumetio done away fine. Think we need to persist with Ingram tbh. 

This.

Koumetio did nothing wrong and Ingram made a stupid mistake but will learn from it. Ingram had been doing pretty good with the exception of Saturday and the game v United.

[RandomGuy.]

2 hours ago, Pens_Dark said:

Ryan Jack

He's signed for a Turkish side hasn't he?

[Wee jeemie]

2 hours ago, Pens_Dark said:

This.

Koumetio did nothing wrong and Ingram made a stupid mistake but will learn from it. Ingram had been doing pretty good with the exception of Saturday and the game v United.

Just watched it again , and I now don’t blame Ingram , Portales push’s him into the player , he then loses balance and automatically clings onto the player as he falls , a complete accident 

[Shadow Play]

5 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

 

Willie Collum phoning to apologise about the penalty incident on Murray in the 55th minute on Saturday.

I thought it was a penalty.  Score that and the game MAY have changed.  Pretty sure Sportscene didn’t even mention it in their analysis of the game.  

[Boo Khaki]

3 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

He's signed for a Turkish side hasn't he?

According to the BBC he turned out listed as "Ryan James", but the club didn't actually announce his signing or anything.

I have no idea what Trialist rules are in the Turkish 2nd Division, but leagues like that tend to be much more relaxed about every other aspect of squad registration and transfers, so it's possible it is just an A.Trialist thing at the moment 

Edited Monday at 17:57 by Boo Khaki

[Bigmouth Strikes Again]

Doors firmly shut on Ryan Jack. IMO. Can f**k right off.

Thank you.,

[MarkoP]

Why no VAR intervention 

looked nailed on from behind the goal too

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c7499vynrrxo

[RandomGuy.]

24 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said:

According to the BBC he turned out listed as "Ryan James", but the club didn't actually announce his signing or anything.

I have no idea what Trialist rules are in the Turkish 2nd Division, but leagues like that tend to be much more relaxed about every other aspect of squad registration and transfers, so it's possible it is just an A.Trialist thing at the moment 

He played for them yesterday, it seems like.

Every website now listing him as their player.

[RossBFaeDundee]

Thankfully we can shut that door and stop pretending he's not finished.

[Fifespud]

53 minutes ago, MarkoP said:

Why no VAR intervention 

looked nailed on from behind the goal too

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c7499vynrrxo

I thought the one Larkeche got booked for was worth a shout. Certainly not a booking. 
Defence is a shambles. Billy and Portales out of position constantly. That first opportunity White had that went past the post, watch Billy ambling back, he’ll need to be way more urgent than that. He did that repeatedly, like he thinks he’s too good for that sort of effort. Some really nice passes, no question, but defend first and foremost. 

[Liam899]

2 hours ago, Fifespud said:

I thought the one Larkeche got booked for was worth a shout. Certainly not a booking. 
Defence is a shambles. Billy and Portales out of position constantly. That first opportunity White had that went past the post, watch Billy ambling back, he’ll need to be way more urgent than that. He did that repeatedly, like he thinks he’s too good for that sort of effort. Some really nice passes, no question, but defend first and foremost. 

I’m in absolutely no way comparing big Billy to Van Dyke except that he has that same ‘lack of effort’ look to his play. I reckon he’ll be class for us. However, both full backs killed us, particularly Ingram. Lakerche just looks so frantic all the time, stupid fouls too. Hoping he’ll settle but I’m not convinced at the moment. 

Not massively worried but Robertson needs to come in. Maybe in a back three with two wing backs. Not sure what we’d do up front with that formation tbh but we need to be harder to break down. 

[Boo Khaki]

31 minutes ago, Liam899 said:

I’m in absolutely no way comparing big Billy to Van Dyke except that he has that same ‘lack of effort’ look to his play. I reckon he’ll be class for us. However, both full backs killed us, particularly Ingram. Lakerche just looks so frantic all the time, stupid fouls too. Hoping he’ll settle but I’m not convinced at the moment. 

Not massively worried but Robertson needs to come in. Maybe in a back three with two wing backs. Not sure what we’d do up front with that formation tbh but we need to be harder to break down. 

I thought Ingram looked fine playing WB before, and it almost makes sense if your FB's are questionable defensively to shove them a bit further up the park. It doesn't really matter with Larkeche, because he's been poor at FB so you aren't any worse off if he's also poor at WB.

Big Billy looks like the prototypical middle of a 3 CB, so I'd be willing to give it a whirl with Ingram, Portales/McGhee, Koumetio, Robertson, Larkeche. I didn't see the game on Saturday beyond the last 10 minutes, but Portales was honking v's St.Mirren and has been less than convincing at other times, so I wouldn't hesitate to bomb him from the team to try and find some sort of combo that does actually work.

[Ludo*1]

We have a lesser midfield without McCowan and it's going to take time, patience and maybe a bit of a slump for Docherty to work out the best combination. We're probably weaker than we were on the field last season. In a weird way, despite it being a disappointment to most of us and the squad and management, a 9th-7th finish does not necessarily represent a step back. We've a very young, inconsistent squad, we're getting better financially by selling players, we've got more players tied down permanently and less reliant on loans this year. All small building blocks that don't automatically scream a positive season but as long as we survive and are away from the play-offs, we can take many bumps in the road this season and it'll still represent some progress being made. 

The fact we are talking about having an underwhelming start having only lost a single game in 5 and are currently sitting a point clear in 6th position is night and day to where we've been previously. Yeah, we all want to kick on and fight for the top 6 every season and the likelihood is with Rangers and Aberdeen up in the cup and league next, it might look a little disappointing, but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water, we have some weaknesses but it's far from horrific. Our defence leaks goals but it wasn't that long ago that we had the likes of Jordon Forster, Liam Fontaine, Christie Elliott etc in the backline. 

To give context, admittedly we played Celtic in our 5th game last season, but we're already a point better off and went on to draw our next 3 games!

[Fifespud]

2 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

We have a lesser midfield without McCowan and it's going to take time, patience and maybe a bit of a slump for Docherty to work out the best combination. We're probably weaker than we were on the field last season. In a weird way, despite it being a disappointment to most of us and the squad and management, a 9th-7th finish does not necessarily represent a step back. We've a very young, inconsistent squad, we're getting better financially by selling players, we've got more players tied down permanently and less reliant on loans this year. All small building blocks that don't automatically scream a positive season but as long as we survive and are away from the play-offs, we can take many bumps in the road this season and it'll still represent some progress being made. 

The fact we are talking about having an underwhelming start having only lost a single game in 5 and are currently sitting a point clear in 6th position is night and day to where we've been previously. Yeah, we all want to kick on and fight for the top 6 every season and the likelihood is with Rangers and Aberdeen up in the cup and league next, it might look a little disappointing, but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water, we have some weaknesses but it's far from horrific. Our defence leaks goals but it wasn't that long ago that we had the likes of Jordon Forster, Liam Fontaine, Christie Elliott etc in the backline. 

To give context, admittedly we played Celtic in our 5th game last season, but we're already a point better off and went on to draw our next 3 games!

Fair post. Don’t really understand why we didn’t sign another DM in the mold of Sylla, or why we signed Billy when we have Luke Graham and Clark Robertson, both left sided CH’s. Maybe 1 can play left back but that remains to be seen. Plus all this trying to make Findlay Robertson an LB, would putting him in at RB not make more sense? Or Portales as I’ve said previously, his tackling would be an asset there. 
As you said, I wouldn’t be unhappy either finishing between 7 and 10. 

[Ludo*1]

40 minutes ago, Fifespud said:

Fair post. Don’t really understand why we didn’t sign another DM in the mold of Sylla, or why we signed Billy when we have Luke Graham and Clark Robertson, both left sided CH’s. Maybe 1 can play left back but that remains to be seen. Plus all this trying to make Findlay Robertson an LB, would putting him in at RB not make more sense? Or Portales as I’ve said previously, his tackling would be an asset there. 
As you said, I wouldn’t be unhappy either finishing between 7 and 10. 

Think Docherty rates Robertson's natural footballing ability and just uses him as a utility man that can be back-up for a lot of positions in a pinch. Not doing a lot for his development and not a long term solution for his career or any individual position but the type that you need in your squad and we're currently lightest at LB so that's where he slots,

As for Billy, I think he'll go on to have the best career out of all our CH's. He's extremely raw and will be a bit of a liability at times, but he has all the tools to be a top, top CH IMO. Can't turn that sort of opportunity down even if it's a bit pish for us in the shorter term.

[Pens_Dark]

1 hour ago, Fifespud said:

Fair post. Don’t really understand why we didn’t sign another DM in the mold of Sylla, or why we signed Billy when we have Luke Graham and Clark Robertson, both left sided CH’s. Maybe 1 can play left back but that remains to be seen. Plus all this trying to make Findlay Robertson an LB, would putting him in at RB not make more sense? Or Portales as I’ve said previously, his tackling would be an asset there. 
As you said, I wouldn’t be unhappy either finishing between 7 and 10. 

This was one of the big things for me was providing competition for Sylla. Granted he's done pretty well for us this season with the exception probably of the United game. If not direct competition for him then we should at least be providing an experienced midfielder alongside him for the likes of Braybrooke, Cameron, Mulligan all to excel and do what they do best. 

[peebles_Dee]

2 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

Think Docherty rates Robertson's natural footballing ability and just uses him as a utility man that can be back-up for a lot of positions in a pinch. Not doing a lot for his development and not a long term solution for his career or any individual position but the type that you need in your squad and we're currently lightest at LB so that's where he slots,

As for Billy, I think he'll go on to have the best career out of all our CH's. He's extremely raw and will be a bit of a liability at times, but he has all the tools to be a top, top CH IMO. Can't turn that sort of opportunity down even if it's a bit pish for us in the shorter term.

He definitely rates having called him Finiesta. He’s a great player to have.

[Boo Khaki]

8 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

We have a lesser midfield without McCowan and it's going to take time, patience and maybe a bit of a slump for Docherty to work out the best combination. We're probably weaker than we were on the field last season. In a weird way, despite it being a disappointment to most of us and the squad and management, a 9th-7th finish does not necessarily represent a step back. We've a very young, inconsistent squad, we're getting better financially by selling players, we've got more players tied down permanently and less reliant on loans this year. All small building blocks that don't automatically scream a positive season but as long as we survive and are away from the play-offs, we can take many bumps in the road this season and it'll still represent some progress being made. 

The fact we are talking about having an underwhelming start having only lost a single game in 5 and are currently sitting a point clear in 6th position is night and day to where we've been previously. Yeah, we all want to kick on and fight for the top 6 every season and the likelihood is with Rangers and Aberdeen up in the cup and league next, it might look a little disappointing, but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water, we have some weaknesses but it's far from horrific. Our defence leaks goals but it wasn't that long ago that we had the likes of Jordon Forster, Liam Fontaine, Christie Elliott etc in the backline. 

To give context, admittedly we played Celtic in our 5th game last season, but we're already a point better off and went on to draw our next 3 games!

I pretty much agree that 7th-9th wouldn't be a disaster. The 6th place finish last season was a bit of an overachievement, and needs put into context. Outside the top 5 and Livi, the rest of the league was much of a muchness, and we sneakily took advantage of that to grab 6th. 

The reason I'm concerned about leaking so many goals is simple. If you are tight at the back but have trouble scoring, then you still have a chance of picking up a point every game. When the opposite is true, you basically have to score 2 or 3 every week to get anything out of the game, or Saturday happens. I'm just a bit concerned that if the goal leakage continues and Doc can't find a solution to it, there is always the possibility we suffer a string of bad results, confidence drains away, and then we do actually end up in a genuine shitfest at the bottom of the table.

Edited Tuesday at 18:09 by Boo Khaki