RiG Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Looking at those figures from PauloPerth and this seasons average attendances so far (take from Football365 Stats) makes for interesting reading: Kilmarnock have seen a 65% fall in their average crowds Motherwell's average attendance has dropped by 53% Celtic, Saint Johnstone and Dundee United have seen 28%, 25% and 21% decreases in average crowds respectively Dundee however have crowds go up by something like 20%* *I am rubbish at working out percentages so there may be some errors here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussellAnderson Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 With regards to Celtic's inflated attendance figures. I'm not sure, but isn't there a health & safety element to this? Does the club not have to account for Season ticket holders + tickets sold for the match, and staff accordingly; Stewards, employees, Police Scotland etc. These are the figures used and not the figure that decides to turn up on the day. There's something in that, but it would be applicable before the game. The figure becomes redundant after the game, esp if there's an incident where they need to evacuate. The police would think there were 20k fans still in the ground! All I'm trying to say is that both figures must exist: tickets sold and actual attendance and they aren't swappable terms in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killiepiemuncher Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 The Celtic entry system is electronic, you push a season card or match day ticket into a wee slot at the turnstyles. Therefore the stated attendance must be correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussellAnderson Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I get that, but the picture painted in the OP is one of negativity and people turning their back on the game. I don't think that is true if they are still paying the money, regardless of whether they turn up for a run of the mill game v Killie or whatever, Overall, I think the attendances are still pretty good despite a real deterioration in standard of player from even 5 years ago. I mean yeah the amount of season tickets you sell is admirable, but I suppose many of those will be bought in the hope that customers can secure champions league tickets if/when the games come around. It's a situation which doesn't often manifest itself in other footballing scenarios, where you have such a gulf between two classes of fixture that you would be willing to pay 300 quid each year just to make sure you have a chance of buying the ticket to the prestigious event Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenlantern Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 The Celtic entry system is electronic, you push a season card or match day ticket into a wee slot at the turnstyles. Therefore the stated attendance must be correct. I get that. But surely you'd have to give prior notice and forecast tickets purchased. You can't exactly draft in extra staff because 5k decide to walk through the turnstiles at 15:15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 The Celtic entry system is electronic, you push a season card or match day ticket into a wee slot at the turnstyles. Therefore the stated attendance must be correct. No it doesn't. The figure given to police must be correct, the figure they announce doesn't. There iss more chance of us getting a full house vs Dundee on Saturday, than there was of there being 42,000 at Parkhead on Sunday. Wasn't even remotely close to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 There was a tit-for-tat war of Freedom of Information requests between Rangers & Celtic fans last season - these confirmed that both clubs publish tickets sold, not people present. Meanwhile providing a figure equating to people present to the police. Scottish football crowds are not at their highest-ever levels, and some clubs have seen a decline. However they remain high in historical terms, and supreme compared to other nations. If/when Rangers, Hearts & Hibs are in tier 1 my expecation is they'll rise again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry94 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Dundee's for anyone that's interested. Think it's safe to say we've retained the same sort of figures over the past decade despite almost going out of existence twice. Top division seasons are shown in bold. Season - Attendance 99-00 - 6815 00-01 - 7745 01-02 - 7932 02-03 - 7601 03-04 - 7090 04-05 - 6880 05-06 - 3797 06-07 - 3880 07-08 - 4251 08-09 - 3955 09-10 - 4759 10-11 - 4728 11-12 - 4224 12-13 - 5958 13-14 - 4738 14-15 - 8710 (after 5 games) Pretty brilliant stuff considering all the low points we've had. We've went through a lot of shit while having a neighbour who have went from strength to strength and reached cup finals and had European days and we've not deteriorated too badly. It'd be exciting if we can get close to that level to see what sort of crowds we can attract considering what United have. It's been said before here but crowds in Scotland are pretty good for our population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Looking at those figures from PauloPerth and this seasons average attendances so far (take from Football365 Stats) makes for interesting reading: Kilmarnock have seen a 65% fall in their average crowds Motherwell's average attendance has dropped by 53% Celtic, Saint Johnstone and Dundee United have seen 28%, 25% and 21% decreases in average crowds respectively Dundee however have crowds go up by something like 20%* *I am rubbish at working out percentages so there may be some errors here! It's worth noting that for Killie (and possibly the other clubs?), the 1998/99 average was our highest since 1960/61 - it was even higher than our average attendance when we won the league. If you were to go back another 15 years to the 1983/84 season, our average attendance was 1358. Our current crowds are still slightly on the low side compared to what we've had in the past, but it's nothing like as drastic as that comparison would suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiG Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Cheers. I did wonder what (historical) context there might be to those figures - perhaps having a successful cup run the season before contributing to an increase in numbers - but I hadn't checked it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 We won the Scottish Cup in 1997, then went on to finish 4th the following season, having been in a serious title race as late as January. We were spending pretty big at the time and had guys like Ian Durrant, Gordon Marshall and Ally McCoist coming in, raising our profile and creating a bit of a buzz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welldaft Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Pretty brilliant stuff considering all the low points we've had. We've went through a lot of shit while having a neighbour who have went from strength to strength and reached cup finals and had European days and we've not deteriorated too badly. It'd be exciting if we can get close to that level to see what sort of crowds we can attract considering what United have. It's been said before here but crowds in Scotland are pretty good for our population. Dundee are lucky in that they have a local derby, Aberdeen and St Johnstone crowds. In fact all those teams benefit from larger crowds than the central belt. Well may benefit from marginally larger away crowds from Partick, St Mirren and Killie, but not to the extent that I have seen this season. If I recall Aberdeen, Dundee and United have all taken 3000+ fans to Perth of late. Those 3 teams will take between 500-1000 to Motherwell. Good luck to them but it does have the effect of inflating average attendances. The only way to make this whole debate relevant is if you compared home supports only to see whether a club was losing out or not. In the case of Motherwell, we are struggling to get 3500, hardly surprising with the way we are playing just now, but even last season we were struggling to get 4000+ home fans and we finished 2nd !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry94 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Dundee are lucky in that they have a local derby, Aberdeen and St Johnstone crowds. In fact all those teams benefit from larger crowds than the central belt. Well may benefit from marginally larger away crowds from Partick, St Mirren and Killie, but not to the extent that I have seen this season. If I recall Aberdeen, Dundee and United have all taken 3000+ fans to Perth of late. Those 3 teams will take between 500-1000 to Motherwell. Good luck to them but it does have the effect of inflating average attendances. The only way to make this whole debate relevant is if you compared home supports only to see whether a club was losing out or not. In the case of Motherwell, we are struggling to get 3500, hardly surprising with the way we are playing just now, but even last season we were struggling to get 4000+ home fans and we finished 2nd !! Yeah, I know what you mean. It's a bit harder to find season ticket numbers for each team to exclude travelling supports but we're around 4000+ (I think United are 5500 but I don't know how many of those are the cheap kids ones given away) which is pretty decent. On Saturday we had a gate of just over 6000 against Hamilton who had a couple of hundred so that's a healthy home crowd. It'd be pretty interesting to get a full breakdown for each team. Sometimes, it's hard to consider how a second tier club would compare to a top tier club because of the change in away support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chazas_ Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Looking at those figures from PauloPerth and this seasons average attendances so far (take from Football365 Stats) makes for interesting reading: Kilmarnock have seen a 65% fall in their average crowds Motherwell's average attendance has dropped by 53% Celtic, Saint Johnstone and Dundee United have seen 28%, 25% and 21% decreases in average crowds respectively Dundee however have crowds go up by something like 20%* *I am rubbish at working out percentages so there may be some errors here! Not exactly an accurate representation for us as our games against Aberdeen, Dundee and Celtic have all been away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Little point analysing this season's attendances until MD22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7-2 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 If I recall Aberdeen, Dundee and United have all taken 3000+ fans to Perth of late. Those 3 teams will take between 500-1000 to Motherwell. Good luck to them but it does have the effect of inflating average attendances. Others such as Hamilton, Ross County, St Mirren, Killie will counteract that. It's why an average figure is used. Agree home support only is the true baramometer though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussellAnderson Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Others such as Hamilton, Ross County, St Mirren, Killie will counteract that. It's why an average figure is used. Agree home support only is the true baramometer though. But the swing is in our favour. Compare Utd's away support at Pitoddrie, Dens etc with Partick's at St Mirren, Rugby Park etc. The local clubs up here have a bigger support as the pull from the OF is less here, so the rivalries attract bigger crowds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiG Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Not exactly an accurate representation for us as our games against Aberdeen, Dundee and Celtic have all been away. True however the last season where I had an average attendance figure for United was 10/11. The average crowd was 7389 which is similar to what you guys have so far this season. Obviously picking out particular seasons in isolation isn't ideal (especially when two seasons prior the average gate was something like 86XX). Little point analysing this season's attendances until MD22. Again true. Things might settle a bit by then and everyone will have had a H & A match v each team. Historically speaking where could I find average crowds for previous SP(L) seasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killiepiemuncher Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I see there's a nice healthy 42000 crowd at Ibrox tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieDee Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 On Saturday we had a gate of just over 6000 against Hamilton who had a couple of hundred so that's a healthy home crowd.Point is, don't think we really had over 6000 there - didn't look it to me. My son was there on his £18 season ticket but I suspect we have many other low price tickets holders where they only occasionally attend. Same as other clubs inflating the figures. Can anyone recall if we had these kind of tickets for sale 10 years ago and reported them as attending? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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