harry94 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 It would be hilarious if he lost the seat. Will be interesting to see him campaign tactics, considering he'll be wanting to stand down in 12 months to run for the Scottish Parliament Is there anything stopping him just keeping his seat at Westminster? He could maybe try some PR campaign where he goes down south every few months and his colleagues bow to him to make him look in cherge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmothecat Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Is there anything stopping him just keeping his seat at Westminster? He could maybe try some PR campaign where he goes down south every few months and his colleagues bow to him to make him look in cherge. Can't be an MP and MSP anymore, think they changed that rule a while ago. Someone also told me that the Labour Party constitution prevents anyone who isn't elected to parliament from being leader of the Labour Party or Scottish Labour. I had a quick scan through it, and couldn't find anything to suggest that, but a few folk on twitter this morning have been saying the same thing. If so then I suppose that made his mind up for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Is Murphy running out of ideas already. He's now reduced to a photo opportunity in a food bank. Unless he and his motley backroom staff have something up their sleeves them he's struggling with just over 3 months to the General Election. Already looking like he needs snookers.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speckled tangerine Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Is Murphy running out of ideas already. He's now reduced to a photo opportunity in a food bank "Hiya pal! Wanna join Labour for a pound?" "Jim, i'm in a foodbank. I'm living on fresh air. f**k off." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Jim's right. And going by recent polls and elections, we don't want a Labour one either. Unlucky Jim. Take me outside and shoot me if you like but I'd rather see a Tory Govt. returned in Westminster than a labour one. Did I really say that? My parents and grandparents will be turning in their graves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Take me outside and shoot me if you like but I'd rather see a Tory Govt. returned in Westminster than a labour one. Did I really say that? My parents and grandparents will be turning in their graves. The current Labour mob would make a disastrous government. Definitely don't want to see them in power unless they're seriously held in check by SNP/Greens etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Take me outside and shoot me if you like but I'd rather see a Tory Govt. returned in Westminster than a labour one. Did I really say that? My parents and grandparents will be turning in their graves. Maybe worth remembering that the Lib Dems have been keeping the brakes on the Tories over the last few years, so a majority Tory government would not act the way Cameron's government have been up to now and would probably feel a need to drift towards UKIP territory. The Lib Dems are going to get slaughtered for that moderating role, but that ultimately serves them right, because a centre-left option could have been cobbled together as well after the last election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Maybe worth remembering that the Lib Dems have been keeping the brakes on the Tories over the last few years, What Tory policies have the Lib Dems prevented since joining the coalition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry94 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 What Tory policies have the Lib Dems prevented since joining the coalition? If I had to argue a positive Lib Dem case I'd say: Tuition Fee repayment structure Income tax personal allowance increase Austerity basically stopped from 2012 Research and Development Investment Killed 'snooper laws' Scrapped ID cards Although things haven't been perfect, I'm much happier with them at least there. The income tax allowance increase was not supported by the Torys initially (they have changed their tune now) and it at least negated the impact of unemployment and did impact a lot of low income earners. Also, Cameron who is considered to be a more moderate conservative compared to most of his party has been keen on all these intrusive privacy laws and Clegg has at least spoken up on that and runs that side of thing. The Lib Dems have won every battle on energy and have been responsible for investing massively in renewable sources and in the process have created a lot of new jobs. Although, I don't quite agree with their opposition to nuclear energy (a debate for another time perhaps but it's the best source of energy we have and we really need to invest in it and look at modern systems to lower energy prices), they've done what a massive group of people believe in and the real Tory's would never agree to this. I would take a Labour-Lib Dem-SNP coalition next time round. We're not really used to coalition deals in this country but they are quite a good thing in balancing power IMO. I think Cameron is probably happier than having a majority government because he at least has someone to blame for things going wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 If I had to argue a positive Lib Dem case I'd say: Tuition Fee repayment structure Income tax personal allowance increase Austerity basically stopped from 2012 Research and Development Investment Killed 'snooper laws' Scrapped ID cards Although things haven't been perfect, I'm much happier with them at least there. The income tax allowance increase was not supported by the Torys initially (they have changed their tune now) and it at least negated the impact of unemployment and did impact a lot of low income earners. Also, Cameron who is considered to be a more moderate conservative compared to most of his party has been keen on all these intrusive privacy laws and Clegg has at least spoken up on that and runs that side of thing. The Lib Dems have won every battle on energy and have been responsible for investing massively in renewable sources and in the process have created a lot of new jobs. Although, I don't quite agree with their opposition to nuclear energy (a debate for another time perhaps but it's the best source of energy we have and we really need to invest in it and look at modern systems to lower energy prices), they've done what a massive group of people believe in and the real Tory's would never agree to this. I would take a Labour-Lib Dem-SNP coalition next time round. We're not really used to coalition deals in this country but they are quite a good thing in balancing power IMO. I think Cameron is probably happier than having a majority government because he at least has someone to blame for things going wrong. Sorry, I had no idea you were so delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry94 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Sorry, I had no idea you were so delusional. Can you please highlight specific things I've said? If you would like, I could provide references on any points and try to back up in further detail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Can you please highlight specific things I've said? If you would like, I could provide references on any points and try to back up in further detail? TBH most of the things in your list are not things that the Lib Dems have prevented. If I take them one by one: Tuition Fee repayment structure The fact that tuition fees exist is down to the Lib Dems reneging on a manifesto committment. Anything done to mitigate this can not be seen to be a Lib Dem triumph. Income tax personal allowance increase This is a Lib Dem policy rather than preventing the Tories from doing something. I agree with this policy BTW. Austerity basically stopped from 2012 Really? I would like proof of how austerity for the poorest in Britain has been stopped. Research and Development Investment Not a prevention Killed 'snooper laws' I will give you this one. Scrapped ID cards Was also Tory policy, so again not something that they have prevented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry94 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 TBH most of the things in your list are not things that the Lib Dems have prevented. If I take them one by one: Tuition Fee repayment structure The fact that tuition fees exist is down to the Lib Dems reneging on a manifesto committment. Anything done to mitigate this can not be seen to be a Lib Dem triumph. Income tax personal allowance increase This is a Lib Dem policy rather than preventing the Tories from doing something. I agree with this policy BTW. Austerity basically stopped from 2012 Really? I would like proof of how austerity for the poorest in Britain has been stopped. Research and Development Investment Not a prevention Killed 'snooper laws' I will give you this one. Scrapped ID cards Was also Tory policy, so again not something that they have prevented. Wasn't really answering the preventative issues and was just trying to present a best possible argument for the Lib Dems success in government. I'd say: Tuition Fees The Lib Dems were never going to win on this and I don't think it would be reasonable for anyone to actually blame them for it happening. A junior partner of a coalition doesn't have that much leverage to force through their biggest plans. They made a big blunder as they had a choice between this and electoral reform. Unfortunately, they picked electoral reform and when the wheels went in motion they were outplayed and ripped to shreds by the two bigger parties who they couldn't compete with. It was dragged along for a few months and people started to forget about it while it was quietly downgraded to a shitty little upgrade and even when they managed to bring that to the table, the campaign funding was in place against them and the electorate didn't care enough to get our and vote for it. At the same time, they just tried to fix repayments of tuition fees and made a system which meant that although fees increased, normal graduates would be less likely to pay as much back. It was a massive blunder and they were caught out by going for the long term option in PR. They shouldn't have made the pledge as they knew they might have a choice to make and they probably overestimated how many seats they would win. As much as they could have and should have done better, I think it would have been a lot worse if it was the Tory's alone. Austerity basically stopped from 2012 If we're defining austerity as substantial public expenditure cuts, it significantly slowed to a state where you couldn't really call it ongoing austerity. Expenditure from the coalitions first budget was around £697 billion, second budget (2011) was £711 billion and third (2012) fell to £682 billion. From there however, the budget has risen to £720 billion (2013) and then £732 billion (2014). Source is all here (you can navigate through the years) on wikipedia but I'll find a better one when I get my proper laptop back. Although, the Conservatives have been talking a big game on making major cuts and prolonging 'austerity', they have slowed despite pledging to do more and it's pretty easy for the leadership to use the existence of the Lib Dems as a reason to their party. Not defending the UK budget in the slightest but I think the Lib Dems have has some sort of impact on that. ID Cards It's true that it wasn't a Labour policy but with the Conservatives constantly whining and trying to create a surveillance state, there behaviour has indicated that they would probably have been quite happy with such a law passing. Maybe they'd have rebranded it or revived it under a new name but like the 'snooper' laws, the presence of the Lib Dems makes it pretty difficult for them to go through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaikuHibee Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Austerity basically stopped from 2012 No, that is not true. They support austerity. It's their policy. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/sep/16/nick-clegg-lib-dems-austerity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry94 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 No, that is not true. They support austerity. It's their policy. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/sep/16/nick-clegg-lib-dems-austerity What they are calling austerity though isn't austerity. It's a term that's thrown about way too much without any real consideration to what it means. Obviously, we've got to judge spending on actual numbers and per GDP. Both haven't significantly decreased since 2012. Describing the country going through a period of austerity just allows you to lower expectations and cut some services. In reality though, cuts have been made but money has been allocated to other parts of the budget; that isn't austerity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaikuHibee Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 What they are calling austerity though isn't austerity. It's a term that's thrown about way too much without any real consideration to what it means. Obviously, we've got to judge spending on actual numbers and per GDP. Both haven't significantly decreased since 2012. Describing the country going through a period of austerity just allows you to lower expectations and cut some services. In reality though, cuts have been made but money has been allocated to other parts of the budget; that isn't austerity. They have still made cuts. The revenue's not increased. That's why they've fucked it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 What they are calling austerity though isn't austerity. It's a term that's thrown about way too much without any real consideration to what it means. Obviously, we've got to judge spending on actual numbers and per GDP. Both haven't significantly decreased since 2012. Describing the country going through a period of austerity just allows you to lower expectations and cut some services. In reality though, cuts have been made but money has been allocated to other parts of the budget; that isn't austerity. If the governement spent 700bln on defence and nothing on social welfare would the country be facing austerity? The areas of spending are as important as the numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Bad news Jim. No wonder you're covering arse for Westminster. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/snp-lead-in-latest-poll-as-scottish-labours-jim-murphy-struggles-to-win-over-voters-9993100.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotlandGer Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Ouch ... Cringe ... Ooft. Heard Murphy on GMS this morning about fracking. 'Scotland has been a guinea pig before. Under Thatcher, we had the poll tax before the rest of the UK. Under my leadership, Scotland will never again be a guinea pig. And, that is why I oppose fracking.' Cringe... Not least, Sarah Boyack then going on to make an **** of defending Scottish Labour MPs' record on the matter and the Labour plans for an upcoming vote. Labour in Scotland used to be ultra-sensitive wee dearies when it came to policy divergence between London and Edinburgh. Now, they like to talk in these 'traditional Scottish cringe' terms while opposing something they don't actually have an established policy on which to base opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaikuHibee Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 divergence between London and Edinburgh. It's even dumber. They're 'Scottish Labour' MPs, he's opposing them!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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