Gretna....can anyone answer ?

[~~~]

It was a farce Airdrie United was allowed to take Clydebank place in the league.

[mid-table]

It was a farce Airdrie United was allowed to take Clydebank place in the league.

Technically they didn't. They bought Clydebank and relocated them to Airdrie and renamed them Airdrie United. They are the same, although I'm sure both parties would like to disagree with that. I believe the Clydebank club crest etc was given back to the new Clydebank so they would have a point about that, it's all semantics really.

As I remember it, UCS were preferred bidders but the Clydebank owner decided to sell to Airdrie United instead, that was the real travesty. There was quite a good book written about it a few years later, can't remember what it was called but it was part of a series called Clubs In Crisis.

[HibeeJibee]

Technically they didn't. They bought Clydebank and relocated them to Airdrie and renamed them Airdrie United. They are the same, although I'm sure both parties would like to disagree with that.

That's correct... Officially the situation was no different that Ferranti Thistle becoming Meadowbank Thistle, or then becoming Livingston. SFL used to be very picky about Airdrie United's foundation date, honours, league record etc. being Clydebank's.

[markc]

The more i've read over old articles re-Mileson,the more astonished i am as to how he was allowed to just walk away from it.He as a director is legally bound not to trade whilst knowing a business is insolvent.Apparantly he just walked away in Feb 2008 and nobody heard from him again until he died,his family (who dont seem genuine to me)hid behind his illness.He died later thst year.His family thought there was lots of money but he was bankrupt although in 2010 his wife bought a £800 grand house in Scotland...the authorities found out and were arguing over whether it could be seized from her to contribute to his debts in the last article i read.His son was then outed for selling Gretna memorabilia on Ebay, money that shouldve gone to creditors.

Basically the bottom line for Gretna was there was ZERO plan for existence never mind a business plan , without Milesons money.The very first week his cheque didnt show up to pay the wages the club were sunk.Once the players hadnt been paid the club was in breach of contract and players could leave.They all jumped ship pretty quick including Davie Irons the coach.

Finally the league sank them by demoting them to division 3.Had they just been relegated to div 1, there was a buyer ready to step in.

I dont know why the league did this...the buyer pulled out and they were finished.

Nobody came out of the tale well.

Mileson dead,Alexander hasnt had a job since.Irons has been in and out of football various jobs (he blamed Wadsworth for everything) Wadsworth has had 14 jobs in the last 18 years and pretty much been a failure everywhere.

Strangely Wadsworth and Irons recently teamed up at a lowly cumbrian non league team called Celtic Nation who someone is pumping money into but their involvement lasted only months....For what its worth my theory is Mileson sent Wadsworth in during the Div 1 campaign to try to break the team up and stop the charge for further promotion as he knew by then that his money was running out and the whole thing was unsustainable.

Anyone any thoughts on this theory ?

[7-2]

The more i've read over old articles re-Mileson,the more astonished i am as to how he was allowed to just walk away from it.He as a director is legally bound not to trade whilst knowing a business is insolvent.Apparantly he just walked away in Feb 2008 and nobody heard from him again until he died,his family (who dont seem genuine to me)hid behind his illness.He died later thst year.His family thought there was lots of money but he was bankrupt although in 2010 his wife bought a £800 grand house in Scotland...the authorities found out and were arguing over whether it could be seized from her to contribute to his debts in the last article i read.His son was then outed for selling Gretna memorabilia on Ebay, money that shouldve gone to creditors.

Basically the bottom line for Gretna was there was ZERO plan for existence never mind a business plan , without Milesons money.The very first week his cheque didnt show up to pay the wages the club were sunk.Once the players hadnt been paid the club was in breach of contract and players could leave.They all jumped ship pretty quick including Davie Irons the coach.

Finally the league sank them by demoting them to division 3.Had they just been relegated to div 1, there was a buyer ready to step in.

I dont know why the league did this...the buyer pulled out and they were finished.

Nobody came out of the tale well.

Mileson dead,Alexander hasnt had a job since.Irons has been in and out of football various jobs (he blamed Wadsworth for everything) Wadsworth has had 14 jobs in the last 18 years and pretty much been a failure everywhere.

Strangely Wadsworth and Irons recently teamed up at a lowly cumbrian non league team called Celtic Nation who someone is pumping money into but their involvement lasted only months....For what its worth my theory is Mileson sent Wadsworth in during the Div 1 campaign to try to break the team up and stop the charge for further promotion as he knew by then that his money was running out and the whole thing was unsustainable.

Anyone any thoughts on this theory ?

If Mileson was struggling financially and had to stop personally hemorrhaging money with Gretna why didn't he just sell the club when it was still leading the First Division? If it was known he was in financial difficulties he would have got below market value but that would surely have been better than just pulling the plug and losing everything.

[markc]

The club wasnt viable as a business.

As the administrator says in a video on u tube...in most cases you sort out the immediate finance issues then get the house in order to move forward.

In this case even if you sorted out the 3 million debt you still couldnt move forward as there was no viable business.There were 40 staff with a 35 grand a week wage bill plus cars and other costs.The clubs income was only covering a third of this.It meant someone had to be prepared to lose up to 1-2 million a year to run the club in its existing state.Mileson had spent that sort of money in his first 4 years.Without his money there was no business.He should have been honest about the situation but he and his family hid behind his health to walk away from it.

The club could and should have been saved though...the way it was handled was hasty.

[Sergeant Wilson]

No it shouldn't. What actually happened was the best outcome of bad situation. They are back at the right level.

[markc]

I cant disagree with that.

What i meant was that if their Div 1 status had been kept there was a buyer ready.That buyer wouldve had to put in place a more realistic structure.They were demoted though to Div 3 and on hearing this the buyer pulled out and the club vanished.

But yes the level they have now risen to is spot on.They are third in the lowland league.Looking at attendances in div 2 (it was called div 3 then) i see no reason why Gretna couldnt hold their own.

I somehow think it would take a leap of faith for them to be voted back in the SFL...cant see it happening.

Good to see they have recovered to a decent level and back at Raydale.

[nsr]

It was the 'fairytale' crap that the press kept spouting that got on my man-tits. Throw enough money at any club and they'll enjoy short term success.

[HibeeJibee]

But yes the level they have now risen to is spot on.They are third in the lowland league.Looking at attendances in div 2 (it was called div 3 then) i see no reason why Gretna couldnt hold their own.

I somehow think it would take a leap of faith for them to be voted back in the SFL...cant see it happening.

Good to see they have recovered to a decent level and back at Raydale.

They don't need to be voted back in... they 'just' need to win LL they win the play-off. Not easy, but I'd expect them to be LL contenders year-by-year.

[markc]

Ah right sorry i didnt realise that...are there no criteria that a club has to fill before being allowed in even if they win the play offs ?

Re...play off..do the LL winners play the HL winner then the winner of that play the team that finished bottom of div 2 ?

[HibeeJibee]

Criteria is Entry licensing + Bronze floodlights... Gretna have an Entry license (it's also needed to play in LL) and if the floodlights, which were refitted a few years ago, are not already sufficient for Bronze they'll presumably not need radical upgrading.

You're correct on the format.

[markc]

HibeeJibee..ok thanks for that....well Gretna are not in a bad place then .

They are probably at a fair level just now and possibly could go further forward so things havent turned out too bad and i am sure a few lessons have been learned.

[dillinger]

The Lowland League route to promotion for us, Gretna fc 2008 is to quote a saying, has been a God send for a club like ours with ambition.

There was Abouslutly no chance of us ever winning a vote to gain entry to the SFL.

Understanable as we are in a fairly small.catchment/ population area.

With Annan 8 miles up the road the League would have seen.it as too close to have another club in the League.

If we get into the SPFL I can see us having 300 plus figures for our home games. Also we do havea good travelling support so likely 150 would travel to away games.

[Binos123sam]

What my last post has been deleted ffs

[Ludo*1]

Mileson donated quite a decent bit of cash into the black hole that was Dundee at the time. He's a good guy IMO.

[markc]

Dillinger...im pleased for Gretna that they now seem to be healthy and have a route back.I agree that they would hold their own at the lower end of league football.At that level crowds of 3-400 are healthy.

[markc]

Ludo....if he was such a great guy why did he cut his ties with Gretna and refuse all contact, knowing full well that he had sunk them.His family blamed his health.Interestingly he was being taken to court by Carlisle fc for non payment of promised sponsorship money (£80,000) and he managed to contact the courts on 2 occasions and wrote a personal letter explaining why he couldnt attend.This was in April 2008...2 months after he cut all ties and contact with Gretna.He was claiming that his brain illness meant he couldnt understand questions properly.

It was the lack of contact with Gretna from him and his family that was unforgiveable.He just walked away from it.As i have said before, there have been many people before him who have been charged with criminal offences for similar actions.

[harry94]

Ludo....if he was such a great guy why did he cut his ties with Gretna and refuse all contact, knowing full well that he had sunk them.His family blamed his health.Interestingly he was being taken to court by Carlisle fc for non payment of promised sponsorship money (£80,000) and he managed to contact the courts on 2 occasions and wrote a personal letter explaining why he couldnt attend.This was in April 2008...2 months after he cut all ties and contact with Gretna.He was claiming that his brain illness meant he couldnt understand questions properly.

It was the lack of contact with Gretna from him and his family that was unforgiveable.He just walked away from it.As i have said before, there have been many people before him who have been charged with criminal offences for similar actions.

He didn't say he was competent or even he knew what he was doing. The guy obviously wasn't right but that doesn't mean he didn't mean well.

Clubs shouldn't be so reliant on one individual that they go under if they leave. Benefactors are entitled to withdraw funding at any time and it's up to the board to plan for that.

[markc]

Im sure he meant well up to a point.

Re..the board....when you are pumping all the money in, you are the board !

Apparantly he kept promising to put things in place for when he and his money werent around...but he never did...just like he never improved the ground like he kept promising.

im sure he was well intended but ran out of money .....and just didnt want to come clean.