RedRob72 Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 "But Scotland voted to be outvoted on reserved matters - embrace it" seems to be the embattled regionalists' only defence. The only one coming across as embattled yet beleaguered here is you my friend. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerwickMad Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 And so you recognise the clear difference between a country in a political union having its national voice, as expressed by virtually all its elected representatives ignored, and you as a private individual having your voice ignored?National voice, individual voice, local voice, regional voice, it doesn't really matter tbh. It's not undemocratic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 National voice, individual voice, local voice, regional voice, it doesn't really matter tbh. It's not undemocratic. So you liken Scotland the nation to an "individual, local or regional voice" within the UK? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmothecat Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Maybe a compromise should have been made so Scottish soldiers, and anyone from any constituency whose MP voted against Air Strikes, aren't allowed to be involved. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 I'm sure there were just as many people in Eng, Wales and Norn Iron who also opposed. We didn't vote to take these matters into our own hands however, we decided we wanted to remain part of the collective Union. Stamping your feet on anything and everything the Nationalists oppose achieves nothing! That Ship has sailed, it will be a while before it returns to port. "But Scotland voted to be outvoted on reserved matters - embrace it" seems to be the embattled regionalists' only defence. ^ case in point! Utterly bereft of anything other than "but we voted to be a minor part of the UK, please just accept it and stop criticising it". Why won't it all just go away, right? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 The same 'And?' could apply to those moaning. No. Their MP voted as they wanted. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerwickMad Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 So you liken Scotland the nation to an "individual, local or regional voice" within the UK?In terms of 'what we voted for', it makes no difference to me. What my work colleagues in East Lothian and my best pal in Eyemouth think means more than me than my fellow Englishman in Dover or Dudley. I'm not a nationalist. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 In terms of 'what we voted for', it makes no difference to me. What my work colleagues in East Lothian and my best pal in Eyemouth think means more than me than my fellow Englishman in Dover or Dudley. I'm not a nationalist. I note you mentioned only places in the nation state of the UK. It might surprise you to learn that the UK is one of the most aggressively nationalistic and jingoistic nation states in the history of the earth. Supporting the national status of the UK is nationalism, just as supporting the national status of Scotland is nationalism. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerwickMad Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 I note you mentioned only places in the nation state of the UK. It might surprise you to learn that the UK is one of the most aggressively nationalistic and jingoistic nation states in the history of the earth. Supporting the national status of the UK is nationalism, just as supporting the national status of Scotland is nationalism.I don't necessarily support it. I accept the status quo until I am presented with something I feel is better to vote for. In the mean time I'll actually worry about the actual issues which effect people's lives. Feeling a sense of belonging through a national identity is way way down the list. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 "Equal partner in a Equal union" all the scots voted against it "f**k em" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotad Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Diane Abbott has got to be the most unlikable bitch in the UK 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 ^ case in point! Utterly bereft of anything other than "but we voted to be a minor part of the UK, please just accept it and stop criticising it". Why won't it all just go away, right? Changing the words of what I posted to suit your argument is pretty desperate stuff. I don't believe we voted to be a minor part of the U.K., that's your take on it and one that you have to live with, that's up to you alone, fair enough! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 We have 59 MPs in Westminster which offers a voice in roughly the same proportion (MPs to electorate) as any other part of the U.K. I haven't refused to identify anything at all, I welcome and embrace our place and say in how the Union works, it's not up to me to prove how that chosen position is granted or denied in other parts of the world. This referendum is relevant to Britain's place in Europe. You either engage and involve or abandon and ignore. That's also your choice. And 58 of those Scottish MP's voted NOT to bomb ISIS in Syria last December yet the Scottish voice was ignored. This of course happens in every vote regarding the outside world. It's English politicians who decide Scotland's friends & enemies. Is that how you 'welcome and embrace our place and say in how the Union works'. I'm sure there were just as many people in Eng, Wales and Norn Iron who also opposed. We didn't vote to take these matters into our own hands however, we decided we wanted to remain part of the collective Union. Stamping your feet on anything and everything the Nationalists oppose achieves nothing! That Ship has sailed, it will be a while before it returns to port. Rob I'm just pointing out the fact that all of the Scottish MP's bar one voted NOT to bomb ISIS but their votes were ignored. Are you happy that English politicians will always decide the standing of the UK in the world. In the UN it is only English politicians policy that determines how the UK votes. In Europe it's only English politicians agenda which decides how the UK votes. In the UK parliament it's only English MP's votes that carry any weight. The Scottish votes are meaningless unless they coincide with the majority of English votes. Are you happy with that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Changing the words of what I posted to suit your argument is pretty desperate stuff. I don't believe we voted to be a minor part of the U.K., that's your take on it and one that you have to live with, that's up to you alone, fair enough! Prove that having 59 out of 650 representatives (only one of which - from a party which was otherwise entirely rejected in Scotland - is in government) can be described as anything other than being a minor part of the UK. We also have only 10% of the state's population. And we receive 10% of the state Treasury's budget. So go on - what else does it make us? Please be very specific - I'm not interested in empty, ideological, BritNat rhetoric. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Changing the words of what I posted to suit your argument is pretty desperate stuff. I don't believe we voted to be a minor part of the U.K., that's your take on it and one that you have to live with, that's up to you alone, fair enough! Is that 'tongue in cheek'? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Is that 'tongue in cheek'? "That's the spirit. If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 (edited) Rob I'm just pointing out the fact that all of the Scottish MP's bar one voted NOT to bomb ISIS but their votes were ignored. Are you happy that English politicians will always decide the standing of the UK in the world. In the UN it is only English politicians policy that determines how the UK votes. In Europe it's only English politicians agenda which decides how the UK votes. In the UK parliament it's only English MP's votes that carry any weight. The Scottish votes are meaningless unless they coincide with the majority of English votes. Are you happy with that? Let's just imagine if the Labour Party had secured the most seats down south in the GE (which was certainly possible)with the SNP waiting in the wings to offer a coalition. IIrc it was a delicious prospect for many on here to cause mayhem at Westminster after being denied a win in the Ref. The roles would be reversed and a real chance to stick it to the English. I don't need to ask if most seperatists would have been happy with that until the chance of a 2nd Ref.Many English/Welsh/Northern Irish MP's were also against bombing Syria btw, I don't believe their opinions were just simply ignored. The Euro ref isn't about Scottish Independence, we have already decided on that. It isn't ideological rhetoric Antlion it is fact. For the time being we work with what we've got and again what we voted for. Edited February 26, 2016 by RedRob72 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Let's just imagine if the Labour Party had secured the most seats down south in the GE (which was certainly possible)with the SNP waiting in the wings to offer a coalition.Let's just stick to things that actually happened and leave the whatabout for other threads. No party with Milliband in charge would secure the most seats in a GE. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Let's just imagine if the Labour Party had secured the most seats down south in the GEr.Then there would be no need for any coalition in this union of equal partners,win england rule the union 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 (edited) Let's just stick to things that actually happened and leave the whatabout for other threads. No party with Milliband in charge would secure the most seats in a GE. In that case why did Nicola Sturgeon offer the chance of a coalition just to get the Tories out? Was that just another 'throw away' line? She knew it was a possibility, just like the rest of us. Edited February 26, 2016 by RedRob72 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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