ScotSquid Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 That's pretty weak sauce. What mainstream party in the UK *doesn't* identity its values as "justice, equality and internationalism"? They're bromides. Yes - a picture that Blair's departure from Thatcherism was confined to social policy. No party can speak to the entire country. This is a centrist myth. There is simply no party *for everyone*. Let's not pretend that the Tories won a stonking majority of people's votes: the whole system is farcical. I'm never going to vote for Labour (or any party) to try and keep the Tories in check. Aside from the fact the system doesn't work like that, no party should ever get in just to keep the only other option out. Sadly, that is *exactly* how UK politics works. One party gets in and stays in, doing what it likes, until it is disliked enough to lose a General Election. When it does, the other team get in. Lather, rinse, repeat. I agree with your last paragraph though the only real alternative is coalition which proved to be a disaster for the smaller party. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 (edited) European? Blair had a very positive relationship with Europe. Much more so than Thatcher or Cameron. I think you're struggling a bit here. We've already established multiple New Labour specific policies that Thatcher would have despised. You've just tried a blanket claim of wide areas with nothing more. You can make a decent argument that they continued the light touch regulations that were very Thatcherite. And he was a warmonger and American cock sucker. Its more correct to say Cameron is a child of Blair than that Blair was a child of Thatcher IMO. Eh? Thatcher was a committed Europhile. Have you read up on this stuff or are you assuming things based on general perceptions of these leaders and their governments? I'd say both Cameron and Blair are children of Thatcher in that both are committed to the neoliberal policies championed and normalised during Thatcher's tenure. Where Cameron resembles Blair (as you've not qualified the claim) seems to me to be entirely in his PR-centric, media-coached persona and style of delivery (and is that really something Blair created or is it a product of our developing, somewhat shallow and superficial culture more generally?). Edited November 27, 2015 by Antlion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 I agree with your last paragraph though the only real alternative is coalition which proved to be a disaster for the smaller party. Disastrous, I agree, but again that's because of the combative, oppositional nature of Westminster politics. Coalition governments built on negotiation and consensus are common across Europe, but the UK is wedded to the archaic system of two parties sitting opposite one another, braying and screeching like children as they try to score superficial blows. Even the House is organised to promote this, rather than being a more circular, open chamber geared towards creating a discussion space. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotSquid Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Bit rich for you to be talking about lack of evidence backing up a claim given your pretty poorly thought out Google search of 'Thatcher and Blair' and passing off someone else's views on it rather than give your own examples. Which is why you are scrabbling about here saying 'OK.. Apart from the minimum wage, Section 28, the Trades Union recognition.. The Good Friday agreement..the NHS funding.. The beefing up of the public sector..' Blair was just like Thatcher !! I think you are coming over as someone desperate to believe something regardless of the evidence. You really should read up more on this rather than just jump onto someone else's bandwagon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotSquid Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Disastrous, I agree, but again that's because of the combative, oppositional nature of Westminster politics. Coalition governments built on negotiation and consensus are common across Europe, but the UK is wedded to the archaic system of two parties sitting opposite one another, braying and screeching like children as they try to score superficial blows. Even the House is organised to promote this, rather than being a more circular, open chamber geared towards creating a discussion space. No.. I think its more the lack of sophistication of the British (less so the Scottish) electorate. There seemed to be an embarrassing amount of 'look.. The Tories are getting much more than the Lib Dems out of this!!!' rhetoric. As if the concept of a major and minor partner was something incredibly hard to understand. It would be quite interesting to see a proper rainbow coalition in Britain. A Green environment minister..an SNP home secretary etc.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 (edited) Bit rich for you to be talking about lack of evidence backing up a claim given your pretty poorly thought out Google search of 'Thatcher and Blair' and passing off someone else's views on it rather than give your own examples. Which is why you are scrabbling about here saying 'OK.. Apart from the minimum wage, Section 28, the Trades Union recognition.. The Good Friday agreement..the NHS funding.. The beefing up of the public sector..' Blair was just like Thatcher !! I think you are coming over as someone desperate to believe something regardless of the evidence. You really should read up more on this rather than just jump onto someone else's bandwagon. Actually I read the book in 2010 (haven't reread it right enough). There was a hoopla about it at the time, and it was recommended reading. You, on the other hand, appear to have read nothing and are simply listing Blair's social policies and claiming how unThatherite they are (which might mean something if literally *anyone* here had claimed that his social policies were Thatcherite). This may stagger you, but Blair could be Thatcherite and not actually *be* Thatcher, nor invite her approval of every single policy he passed. Mandelson certainly thought so. So did Thatcher. Still waiting on your evidence (or anything, actually) to explain Cameron's inheritance from dear old Blair, though. Incidentally, you might want to provide some kind of informed opinion - reading published material is not a bad thing - our own views can actually be informed by it. Edited November 27, 2015 by Antlion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotSquid Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 In what way was the Good Friday agreement a social policy? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotSquid Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 And again.. Pretty laughable that you are talking about evidence when you have provided zero. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 No.. I think its more the lack of sophistication of the British (less so the Scottish) electorate. There seemed to be an embarrassing amount of 'look.. The Tories are getting much more than the Lib Dems out of this!!!' rhetoric. As if the concept of a major and minor partner was something incredibly hard to understand. It would be quite interesting to see a proper rainbow coalition in Britain. A Green environment minister..an SNP home secretary etc.. Not sure that having anything Rainbow is a good idea at the same time as France are promising to blow things up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Diane Abbott on tonight, think I'll be giving it a miss! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Sannox Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Diane Abbott on tonight, think I'll be giving it a miss! I'll be doing the same. She is the most vacuous MP in the house, and that's saying something given that rabble of SNP tards. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I'll be doing the same. She is the most vacuous MP in the house, and that's saying something given that rabble of SNP tards. SNPBAD! Loves a bit of Scottish cringe. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 "SNP tards" lol. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WullieBroonIsGod Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Sweet Caroline on this evening and will no doubt be the voice of reason, whilst Nicky Morgan will spout pish 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotSquid Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) My money is on someone from the audience saying 'jaw jaw is better than war war' as if they are the first to think of it and its inspired. Edited December 3, 2015 by ScotSquid 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewDon Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 If there's one thing Question Time doesn't need, it's more audience interaction. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenconner Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 And the first politician says top gun is in our thoughts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Maajid Nawaz should get the full hour to himself. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Nicky Morgan is an absolute fuckin boot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Brightside Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Will this Nicky woman shut her ugly fucking puss for two seconds so other people can talk? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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