BerwickMad Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Compensation from us?! Why? We didn't contribute to any of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Compensation from us?! Why? We didn't contribute to any of it. What do you mean by "we"? If you are actually referring to a state, that obviously benefited from being an imperial power then yes: it certainly does require a degree of compensation.. And the claim that the UK "didn't contribute" to problems in Kenya is simply idiotic. If you think that "we" refers to the living population in a sovereign state then you are a moron. It's a bit stupid to judge what a state did hundreds of years ago to today's standards. It's also like constantly reminding Germany of the nazis as a stick to beat them with, and that's far more recent. Move on. Well the Germans have actually been beaten far, far more with the Nazi or Kaiser, 'German authoritarian' stick in history, than the less than noble, rampantly imperialist stick that the UK has had to deal with. War wins tend to make that happen. The UK, like most large states, has held pretty much no moral or even many intelligible political standards in history; that hasn't actually changed over time. The UK has just become far less influential. It is the Clyde of world powers right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerwickMad Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Of course I'm referring to the living population of the state. I don't see why I, or anyone living now should be made to apologise or pay for the crimes of people living hundreds of years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 The UK state, as is understood and contributed towards by its citizens in the last 100 years, absolutely contributed to suffering in the likes of Kenya, and many other imperial outposts, in the 1930-60s. There are millions, if not tens of millions of citizens who lived during this period; even if we were to accept your utterly idiotic rationale, you wouldn't have a leg to stand on. We don't anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperCaleyGoBallistic Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Britain only directly rules Kenya from 1895 till 1962. Its involvement came from the Royal Navies efforts to crush Arab slavers based out of Zanzibar. British control of Kenya was not really all that bad by the standards of either African empires or the foreigners who had empires in Africa. The last few years against the Mau Mau the UK fell well below the standards people would have expected in the 50s, but only by the standards of a liberal democracy. Large scale forced labour concentration camps, not that bad really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 It's a bit stupid to judge what a state did hundreds of years ago to today's standards. It's also like constantly reminding Germany of the nazis as a stick to beat them with, and that's far more recent. Move on. If we were debating the moral standards of the state today, then yes, that would be a fair point. However, whenever someone tries to argue that Britain has historically been a force for good in the world and uses the Empire as an example, people are obviously going to point out the few trillion problems the Empire caused in every part of the world it touched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Large scale forced labour concentration camps, not that bad really. Compared to Shaka's empire or the Arab slavers? You should read up a little on African history. You seem so blinded by desire to blame Britain you are unwilling to see it in a wider context. Now seeing as you are a bit slow witted let me repeat the salient bit of what I said. not really all that bad by the standards of either African empires or the foreigners who had empires in Africa. The last few years against the Mau Mau the UK fell well below the standards people would have expected in the 50s, but only by the standards of a liberal democracy. I have not doubt you are too thick to understand the subtly of what I said and will once again pretend I was saying that it was not bad by modern standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Compared to Shaka's empire or the Arab slavers? You should read up a little on African history. You seem so blinded by desire to blame Britain you are unwilling to see it in a wider context. Now seeing as you are a bit slow witted let me repeat the salient bit of what I said. I have not doubt you are too thick to understand the subtly of what I said and will once again pretend I was saying that it was not bad by modern standards. What a shite argument. Taking this to extremes, you could argue that any european country in the 30s/40s could kill a few million people, as in the wider context of what Germany was doing this would be trivial. I don't claim to know a great deal about the history of Africa but I do know that the Britain used concentration camps and killed prisoners by clubbing them to death for refusing to work. In any context this isn't acceptable behaviour, either then nor now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Pol Pot wasn't that bad IMO, didn't kill as many as Mao. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 What a shite argument. Taking this to extremes, Take any argument to extremes and it breaks down. In any context this isn't acceptable behaviour, either then nor now. Is it so hard to read what was written. The last few years against the Mau Mau the UK fell well below the standards people would have expected in the 50s, but only by the standards of a liberal democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Is it so hard to read what was written. No it isn't hard to read but easy to disagree/. "only by the standards of a liberal democracy" infers that the people of Kenya and other countries within the British Empire would find such behaviour acceptable (since they are not governed by a liberal democracy). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flippin Eck Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 People who think the British Empire is a thing of the past are dim as shit. Possibly, but nowhere near as dim as you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 No it isn't hard to read but easy to disagree/. "only by the standards of a liberal democracy" infers that the people of Kenya and other countries within the British Empire would find such behaviour acceptable (since they are not governed by a liberal democracy). Wow, how hard can it be. The model of government of the UK in the 1950s was liberal democracy. By the standards we expect on one of those the UK failed. Compared to many other governments of the time the UKs rule was not all that bad. That does not mean they should be excused Do I have to draw pictures so you can understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flippin Eck Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Pol Pot wasn't that bad IMO, didn't kill as many as Mao. An estimated 45 million died (starved, shot, burnt alive, beaten to death) in the four year period termed (by Mao) as the "Great Leap Forward". And yet global capitalism and western liberal democracies have no problem at all now in doing trillions of dollars worth of business with the current regime, and indeed the country, that reveres Mao as some kind of patron saint. Money doesn't talk it swears.....morality who really cares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Talking of immigration, here's a brand new Ukip soundbite generator: http://ukip.butts.rip/ My first three clicks... The BBC is spending all your money on criminals Lefties are selling your future to The Lords The Establishment is a propaganda tool for Russel Brand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerwickMad Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 People who think the British Empire is a thing of the past are dim as shit. It's still well and truly alive and simply hides behind the guise of "war on terror". Britain still colonized other countries, but uses terrorism fairytales as a means to justify it. Jesus! Haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Wow, how hard can it be. The model of government of the UK in the 1950s was liberal democracy. By the standards we expect on one of those the UK failed. Compared to many other governments of the time the UKs rule was not all that bad. That does not mean they should be excused Do I have to draw pictures so you can understand? Yes, go on. Draw a picture that shows how the clubbing of prisoners was acceptable to the people of Kenya. This should be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Don't forget, Ed did threaten to put up a border if we voted yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Labour councillor an ex-Nazi. What a loon... that's her ex-husband btw. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/05/17/nazi-margaret-burke-milton-keynes-_n_1523990.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodjesSixteenIncher Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Just caught the end of an immigration discussion thingy on C4. One fat ride is upset that the English population in her village have been made unemployed and been replaced by foreign "unskilled labours". Not sure how that works. A national front supporting wifey in the previous section has been in the care system her whole life, has three kids in the system but objects to immigrants taking all the resources. No surprise that the Polish participant was the only one who didn't look to be on the verge of a massive coronary. Fucking Britain man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.