DOA Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 So the bit about learning Gaelic wa So the bit about learning Gaelic wasn't a dig? HmmmmEr .......no! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 So the bit about learning Gaelic wasn't a dig? Hmmmm Guess there's worse things than listening to commentary like, "Heedorum hodorum Auchinleck Talbot heedorum hodurum lumpen proleteriat heedorum hodorurm Bo'ness United heedorum hodurum Lexie Shields". Agree that the bottom line is that the SFA are the ones that need to set the agenda on this. Their officeholders will do what their full membership want and a unification of the nonleague portion of the game and a rational pyramid structure simply isn't on the agenda of the lower division SPFL and HL/LL clubs for reasons of self-interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobRoyGuy Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Of course not but its a bit rich slagging off the Junior Cup Final for being on Alba when there's loads of SPFL football on it! There shouldn't be Senior/Junior, just football clubs.It must suit the SFA or they'd change it in a second. Some of us like the distinction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Some of us like the distinction. That makes you almost as mad as the summer football protagonists ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 .....Agree that the bottom line is that the SFA are the ones that need to set the agenda on this. Their officeholders will do what their full membership want and a unification of the nonleague portion of the game and a rational pyramid structure simply isn't on the agenda of the lower division SPFL and HL/LL clubs for reasons of self-interest. Are you really suggesting that the SFA disenfranchise the junior clubs? Take away their right to self determination? I may not agree or understand why the top junior clubs do not want to be part of the pyramid but I believe that they have every right to play in a league that they think is best for them. I can just imagine the outcry on here if the SFA said that from next season there will be promotion and relegation between the East and West superleagues and the Lowland League. To make sure nobody 'plays the system' they could gp on to say "If you do not want or are not ready to accept promotion, you can go to the bottom of the district leagues". Is that the sort agenda, the SFA should be setting? If not what do you suggest? .....Agree that the bottom line is that the SFA are the ones that need to set the agenda on this. Their officeholders will do what their full membership want and a unification of the nonleague portion of the game and a rational pyramid structure simply isn't on the agenda of the lower division SPFL and HL/LL clubs for reasons of self-interest. Looks to me that you are trying to stir up some senior / junior tribalism here. Of course any club in the Lowland League would welcome junior clubs and their supporters to suggest otherwise is just not true. I agree that we need unification of the non-league but one side cannot dictate to other. There only seems to be a small proportion of junior fans in favour of integration. Until they can be swayed otherwise we have to put up with what we have got. It is nonsense to say that the SFA has to ignore the wishes of the majority of junior fans and implement integration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 If streamlined and modernised the Junior Cup could become our FA Trophy (i.e. EOS+SOS added - maybe preluding integration). It would be more appealing for EOS+SOS clubs since many of them don't enter the more prestigious and lucrative Scottish Cup, whereas all HL+LL will. Having the Junior Cup as the all in non-league national trophy is a no-brainer - if it is to survive at all, clubs licking their lips at the prospect of some of the bigger HL/LL clubs (and for that matter relegated ex SPFL clubs!) visiting is the one thing that will help prevent future deferrals from entry & help to attract those sponsors currently avoiding it like the plague. But it needs to regionalise - same as in the old Qualifying Cups (hello Beith!), same as in the old Scottish Cup of yesteryear where regionalised draws prevented small clubs being financially crippled. I'm not too sure about allowing automatic entry for all the EoS/SoS sides however - this is one situation where some of them need to smarten up their act and at least meet Junior requirements to be allowed entry - no "jumpers for goalposts" grounds like Fleet Star's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobRoyGuy Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 That makes you almost as mad as the summer football protagonists ... I have had a junior club since i was 6 or 7 , i have had a senior club since i was 6 or 7 , every Roy fan and junior fan i know are the same . Not saying everyone is like this but the vast majority of junior fans are of this mindset. This is a mindset that i have had all my life and it's not something i can easily let go. If my team went and joined a pyramid or lowland league , i wouldn't like it but i would get on with it. The Junior cup imo don't need HL or LL teams and they don't need the Junior Cup . Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 That makes you almost as mad as the summer football protagonists ... Steady.........wibble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lithgierose Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 As every junior team aspires to play and,win if possible the Scottish junior cup.what do ll teams play for ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Well - they aspire to win their own leagues and cups, and in a lot of cases aspire to ascend to SPFL. And they already have a national cup - the Scottish Cup - so the allure of a nationwide tournament is already satisfied in that respect. (And while a non-league club will never win it, that's no different from most Juniors in the Junior Cup. It's only had 5 winners in 10 years, too). LL clubs also have the South Challenge Cup embracing LL, EOS & SOS clubs. My gut instinct is that playing in the Junior Cup - although presumably it would be rebranded - would basically appeal to most LL clubs. It clearly wouldn't happen as things stand, though. It would be a scheduling impossibility, and what about things like reinstatement too. Ideally the Junior Cup would become our equivalent of the FA Trophy, and the Amateur Cup our equivalent of the FA Vase. Oh, to dream... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 The big one at that level used to be the North and South Qualifying Cups although more so up north in terms of fan interest. Those have now been replaced with north and south Challenge Cups but that hasn't captured the public imagination to any significant extent in a junior cup final sort of way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moredanlife Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I have had a junior club since i was 6 or 7 , i have had a senior club since i was 6 or 7 , every Roy fan and junior fan i know are the same . Not saying everyone is like this but the vast majority of junior fans are of this mindset. This is a mindset that i have had all my life and it's not something i can easily let go. If my team went and joined a pyramid or lowland league , i wouldn't like it but i would get on with it. The Junior cup imo don't need HL or LL teams and they don't need the Junior Cup . Just my opinion. The thing is though even in unified systems people have a 'big team' and 'wee' team. For example someone from a town in and around Manchester may support United or City but also a team like Accrington Stanley, Bury or Stockport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Infact the North Challenge Cup didn't even survive HL expansion. But it just seemed like another HL Cup with Golspie (and Shetland) added. South Challenge Cup continues and is regarded the most prestigious cup open to LL, EOS & SOS clubs, after the Scottish Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 The thing is though even in unified systems people have a 'big team' and 'wee' team. For example someone from a town in and around Manchester may support United or City but also a team like Accrington Stanley, Bury or Stockport. Lots of people have big teams and wee teams in SPFL terms in a similar sort of way. Most of the clubs in the lower two divisions come from communities that are comparable in size to Kirkintilloch or smaller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobRoyGuy Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 The thing is though even in unified systems people have a 'big team' and 'wee' team. For example someone from a town in and around Manchester may support United or City but also a team like Accrington Stanley, Bury or Stockport. They have no problem with their ' big team ' ' wee team ' being in the same system. I do . I want my ' big team ' and my ' wee' local club to be in two different grades of football. Both currently give me what i want . My big team have always given me the buzz of a big european game or league title win , my local side have always given me a buzz through the chase of big prizes in the junior grade on a more local level .I have always liked the distinction. Don't expect everyone to understand but it's how i will always feel about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 The thing is though even in unified systems people have a 'big team' and 'wee' team. For example someone from a town in and around Manchester may support United or City but also a team like Accrington Stanley, Bury or Stockport. Yes, but in Scotland of course the whole "wee team" business has far different connotations, as most times it means a rabid Old Firm fan trying to make themselves more sophisticated and broadminded than they really are. Witness Chick Young's teary breakdown on the radio on Sunday night after Rangers fell on their arses yet again with potentially catastrophic financial consequences - yet all his life he's protested to be a St Mirren fan. In England, your "wee team" is usually a non-leaguer by default, one to go to when your big team is playing away & you can't afford the travelling time required, but it's pretty common down south for people to have a soft spot for a large number of teams based on various factors (often good memories from a previous visit). Blyth Spartans seem to be just about everyone's favourite non-leaguer owing to their antics in the FA Cup over the decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 They have no problem with their ' big team ' ' wee team ' being in the same system. I do . I want my ' big team ' and my ' wee' local club to be in two different grades of football. Both currently give me what i want . My big team have always given me the buzz of a big european game or league title win , my local side have always given me a buzz through the chase of big prizes in the junior grade on a more local level .I have always liked the distinction. Don't expect everyone to understand but it's how i will always feel about it. What does it matter? your "big team" and your "wee team" will never meet in a league match, so what's the problem? I wonder what people do in the rest of the world with their big teams and their wee teams.................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOA Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 What does it matter? your "big team" and your "wee team" will never meet in a league match, so what's the problem? I wonder what people do in the rest of the world with their big teams and their wee teams.................... They amalgamate them and make them all medium teams! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lithgierose Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Well - they aspire to win their own leagues and cups, and in a lot of cases aspire to ascend to SPFL. And they already have a national cup - the Scottish Cup - so the allure of a nationwide tournament is already satisfied in that respect. (And while a non-league club will never win it, that's no different from most Juniors in the Junior Cup. It's only had 5 winners in 10 years, too). LL clubs also have the South Challenge Cup embracing LL, EOS & SOS clubs. My gut instinct is that playing in the Junior Cup - although presumably it would be rebranded - would basically appeal to most LL clubs. It clearly wouldn't happen as things stand, though. It would be a scheduling impossibility, and what about things like reinstatement too. Ideally the Junior Cup would become our equivalent of the FA Trophy, and the Amateur Cup our equivalent of the FA Vase. Oh, to dream... it was a genuine question btw.others,well one other on here at least.would tell you i am for us joining the LL . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobRoyGuy Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 What does it matter? your "big team" and your "wee team" will never meet in a league match, so what's the problem? I wonder what people do in the rest of the world with their big teams and their wee teams.................... Not about them meeting each other . It's about me personally preferring my local club to be playing in a separate grade of football to the bigger city side i am a fan of . I (as well as most people i know family etc ) have enjoyed the separation the distinction, what both grades offer all my life ( i am 34 years old btw so not some old codger stuck in the 60's ). My local club were founded to represent the club in the juniors grade ,local - region leagues, in local cups , playing local towns and villages that i want to see continue. I would be happy for it to stay that way forever. I understand though it may not and if things changed i would obviously need to go with it and support my local club in whatever format they play in , won't enjoy it as much as can't see my team having as much to play for honors wise ( currently have 5 honors to play for which gives my local team a fighting chance of winning something ) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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