The 2016 US Presidential Election

[Savage Henry]

If ever a candidate summed up my politics, it was George McGovern. Look what happened to him. Bernie Sanders didn't even get that far. So we're left with Clinton vs Trump, which could be the most one sided election in recent memory. It's a pretty bleak prospect for the few of us left who think that the US, presided over correctly, can be a force for decency.

I guess the positive is that Clinton is ten times the candidate Trump is and will win easily.

[welshbairn]

If ever a candidate summed up my politics, it was George McGovern. Look what happened to him. Bernie Sanders didn't even get that far. So we're left with Clinton vs Trump, which could be the most one sided election in recent memory. It's a pretty bleak prospect for the few of us left who think that the US, presided over correctly, can be a force for decency.

I guess the positive is that Clinton is ten times the candidate Trump is and will win easily.

I thought much the same before Reagan and Dubya got voted in, couldn't believe enough Americans were thick enough to vote for them. But at least they had intelligent people behind them and pulling the strings, if ideologically way on the opposite side of the fence from me. But Trump is another thing entirely, appealing solely to thick reality show addicted right wing racists who don't care that he's the most left wing of the bunch apart from racial issues. He has no thought through policies whatsoever, he talks like a 14 year old playground bully, and he's got the worst comb over on the planet. But people like him. WTF?

[Savage Henry]

I thought much the same before Reagan and Dubya got voted in, couldn't believe enough Americans were thick enough to vote for them. But at least they had intelligent people behind them and pulling the strings, if ideologically way on the opposite side of the fence from me. But Trump is another thing entirely, appealing solely to thick reality show addicted right wing racists who don't care that he's the most left wing of the bunch apart from racial issues. He has no thought through policies whatsoever, he talks like a 14 year old playground bully, and he's got the worst comb over on the planet. But people like him. WTF?

I don't get it either. It's hard to avoid the conclusion that what makes him popular is his flat out racist rhetoric. And if that's the case, and 49% of Republicans agree with him, then god help us all. What makes him popular also makes him unelectable is the positive spin, I guess, but for crying out loud, Donald Trump?

[Mr Bairn]

See when a candidate drops out and endorses someone else, do the delegates the resigning candidate has won revert to whoever he or she endorses?

[welshbairn]

No it's a lost vote, that's why there is pressure on the also rans to drop out if they don't make an early impact.

I think you're wrong there. The delegates still have to turn up at the convention and some are free to vote how they want anyway. Not sure if the votes automatically transfer though.

[MONKMAN]

Clinton is favourite to take 11 of the 12 states, the exception being Vermont.

It's game over for Sanders.

[Mr Bairn]

"Fash supper Tuesday", as Hector Brocklebank once called it, is upon us.

Can anyone stop drinking from the Clinton/Trump kool aid? I'd guess not.

After tonight a Clinton/Trump election will be all but certain

[P45]

People are voting for Trump for other reasons that they are all racists you know.

[Gordon EF]

People are voting for Trump for other reasons that they are all racists you know.

Yeah, some people are voting for him because they're idiots.

[Jacksgranda]

I don't get it either. It's hard to avoid the conclusion that what makes him popular is his flat out racist rhetoric. And if that's the case, and 49% of Republicans agree with him, then god help us all. What makes him popular also makes him unelectable is the positive spin, I guess, but for crying out loud, Donald Trump?

Maybe you can fool all of the people all of the time. Or at least enough of them to be a Presidential candidate.

[P45]

Yeah, some people are voting for him because they're idiots.

Says the guy with the SNP avatar.

[Gordon EF]

Says the guy with the SNP avatar.

Yes, says the guy with the SNP avatar.

Are you trying to prove you're not an idiot by being able to identify the emblem of the biggest political party in the country?

[doulikefish]

Is it all those clearly defined policies that he doesn't have?

Getting the mexican rapists to build a big wall is my favourite

Did anybody see the mexican pm telling an american newsreader "will we f**k" live on yank tv last week?

[Ira Gaines]

His idea of killing the families of terrorists is a good one too.

Look, this side of people voting for Trump is simple. People are either wilfully ignorant of his racism, know that he's a racist and accept it, or are racists themselves if they're voting for Trump.

And there's absolutely no excuse to be ignorant to it. It's not as if it's news.

[mjw]

Did anybody see the mexican pm telling an american newsreader "will we f**k" live on yank tv last week?

It just got 10 feet taller!

[Yank Mike]

Is it all those clearly defined policies that he doesn't have?

He has plenty of policies that fit nicely in the moderate window and tend to appeal to working/middle class white conservatives.

Vaguely pro-free trade, but against managed trade deals where other countries rip off the US. Against trade deals that carry provisions which undermine US democracy or put big business in an unfair position over small business.

-Against the trans-Pacific trade deal.

-Notes how China forces US companies to build factories in China if those companies want to gain market access, and then engages in corporate espionage to steal technology and business secrets for their own state owned companies.

-Would place taxes on manufactured goods imported into the US absent trade deals he considers fair to US citizens.

Moderate to libertarian on most social issues, but will protect the right of Christians to practice their personal faith as they see fit.

-Doesn't care about gay marriage.

-Waffles on abortion.

-Will not use state compulsion to force Christians to attend religious ceremonies with which they disagree, to promote views they disagree with, or to directly fund products they consider immoral.

Moderate and realistic on taxation and welfare policy.

-Favors a progressive income tax because higher income earners should pay more.

-Favors closing loopholes that allow the rich to sometimes pay lower taxes than they should.

-Favors protecting middle class entitlement programs like Social Security.

-Favors more restrictions on programs used by those who are part of the non-working underclass.

-Favors the elimination of fraud in programs heavily hit by that problem, such as food stamps, unemployment, and disability.

-Favors lowering taxes in general, especially our corporate tax which is the highest in the developed world and causes companies to shift assets overseas while also unfairly rewarding big companies with the money for an army of tax lawyers to take advantage of complicated loopholes.

-Favors balanced budgets and paying down the national debt.

Against the balance of influence in government that favors the rich and connected over the average citizen.

-Favors the loosening of libel laws protecting the big media companies.

-Favors less money in politics.

-Favors strong anti-corruptions laws which will go after corrupt politicians.

Pro-American and realistic foreign policy.

-Opposed the Iraq War.

-Opposed the Libya airstrikes.

-Favors the complete destruction of global terrorist organizations, but opposes utopian policies aimed at liberalizing the Muslim world.

-Advocates for a tougher line on the Iranian nuclear program, but does not advocate an invasion.

-Favors cooperation with Russia, especially on ISIS in Syria.

-Will not turn a blind eye to the "Islamic" part of Islamic radicalism. Will not view the world through a cultural relativist prism.

-Favors an increased military budget and so-called "peace through strength" where nobody will dare challenge the US.

-Says he will be evenhanded on the Israel-Palestine situation.

-Favors military internment of suspected foreign terrorists and torturing those suspects for information if needed.

Moderate on drug war.

-Focus on border security and prosecution of foreign drug cartels to choke off hard drug supply to the US.

-Government programs to help addicts recover.

-No emphasis as far as I can see on more recreational style drugs or using harsh prison sentences.

Health policy driven by the needs of average people, not ideology or big business.

-Repeal Obamacare.

-Strike down restrictions on buying insurance across state lines.

-Favors greater use of health savings accounts and other market mechanisms to drive down prices.

-Has said good things about the individual mandate which forces people with the means to purchase health insurance.

-Has said that government run health care works fine in smaller countries with a different history and culture, but doesn't think it will work well in the US.

-Favors strong funding for Veteran's Hospitals.

-Favors a system in which all people have health care available, but will take a pragmatic rather than ideological (market or socialist) approach on how this can be accomplished.

Eliminate federal interference in education. Schools should be run locally and democratically through city and state school boards.

I agree with a lot of this and disagree with some, as do most Trump voters. Immigration is a big driving force of his campaign, but he has a full coherent set of policies that fit nicely in the so-called "Jacksonian" model of traditional working/middle class US politics.

[welshbairn]

He has plenty of policies that fit nicely in the moderate window and tend to appeal to working/middle class white conservatives.

Vaguely pro-free trade, but against managed trade deals where other countries rip off the US. Against trade deals that carry provisions which undermine US democracy or put big business in an unfair position over small business.

-Against the trans-Pacific trade deal.

-Notes how China forces US companies to build factories in China if those companies want to gain market access, and then engages in corporate espionage to steal technology and business secrets for their own state owned companies.

-Would place taxes on manufactured goods imported into the US absent trade deals he considers fair to US citizens.

Moderate to libertarian on most social issues, but will protect the right of Christians to practice their personal faith as they see fit.

-Doesn't care about gay marriage.

-Waffles on abortion.

-Will not use state compulsion to force Christians to attend religious ceremonies with which they disagree, to promote views they disagree with, or to directly fund products they consider immoral.

Moderate and realistic on taxation and welfare policy.

-Favors a progressive income tax because higher income earners should pay more.

-Favors closing loopholes that allow the rich to sometimes pay lower taxes than they should.

-Favors protecting middle class entitlement programs like Social Security.

-Favors more restrictions on programs used by those who are part of the non-working underclass.

-Favors the elimination of fraud in programs heavily hit by that problem, such as food stamps, unemployment, and disability.

-Favors lowering taxes in general, especially our corporate tax which is the highest in the developed world and causes companies to shift assets overseas while also unfairly rewarding big companies with the money for an army of tax lawyers to take advantage of complicated loopholes.

-Favors balanced budgets and paying down the national debt.

Against the balance of influence in government that favors the rich and connected over the average citizen.

-Favors the loosening of libel laws protecting the big media companies.

-Favors less money in politics.

-Favors strong anti-corruptions laws which will go after corrupt politicians.

Pro-American and realistic foreign policy.

-Opposed the Iraq War.

-Opposed the Libya airstrikes.

-Favors the complete destruction of global terrorist organizations, but opposes utopian policies aimed at liberalizing the Muslim world.

-Advocates for a tougher line on the Iranian nuclear program, but does not advocate an invasion.

-Favors cooperation with Russia, especially on ISIS in Syria.

-Will not turn a blind eye to the "Islamic" part of Islamic radicalism. Will not view the world through a cultural relativist prism.

-Favors an increased military budget and so-called "peace through strength" where nobody will dare challenge the US.

Moderate on drug war.

-Focus on border security and prosecution of foreign drug cartels to choke off hard drug supply to the US.

-Government programs to help addicts recover.

-No emphasis as far as I can see on more recreational style drugs or using harsh prison sentences.

Health policy driven by the needs of average people, not ideology or big business.

-Repeal Obamacare.

-Strike down restrictions on buying insurance across state lines.

-Favors greater use of health savings accounts and other market mechanisms to drive down prices.

-Has said good things about the individual mandate which forces people with the means to purchase health insurance.

-Has said that government run health care works fine in smaller countries with a different history and culture, but doesn't think it will work well in the US.

-Favors strong funding for Veteran's Hospitals.

-Favors a system in which all people have health care available, but will take a pragmatic rather than ideological (market or socialist) approach on how this can be accomplished.

Eliminate federal interference in education. Schools should be run locally and democratically through city and state school boards.

I agree with a lot of this and disagree with some, as do most Trump voters. Immigration is a big driving force of his campaign, but he has a full coherent set of policies that fit nicely in the so-called "Jacksonian" model of traditional working/middle class US politics.

So how come his website has no policies on it? Has he ever said how he will fulfill any of these commitments? And why would any Republican vote for him? Apart from cutting benefits from the underclass, killing terrorists' families and upscaling torture techniques from mere waterboarding and getting the Mexicans to build a huge fucking wall, obviously.

[Arabdownunder]

So his "clearly defined policies" include

• "vaguely pro free trade" but against various free trade agreements.
• "waffles on abortion" and
• "doesn't care about gay marriage"

The rest is a list of things he favors but no actual policies.

Must try harder Mike

[Yank Mike]

I don't get it either. It's hard to avoid the conclusion that what makes him popular is his flat out racist rhetoric.

I mentioned this is the other Trump thread, but how is his immigration policy more extreme than the Democrats?

In local governments where Republicans are noncompetitive, Democrats have literally passed rules so that local jails cannot cooperate with federal orders to detain illegal immigrants who committed violent crimes up to rape and murder. The immigration authorities issue a hold order so that violent illegal immigrants can be picked up at the local jail and deported after their sentence is complete. Local Democrat politicians pass rules so that these holds must be ignored. These violent criminals are then released back into society where they kill, rape, rob, and otherwise cause havoc. Hillary Clinton supports these so-called sanctuary city policies.

That is an insane immigration system. Barak Obama likes to get on tv and cry about the victims of shootings, but does nothing about policies supported by his party which directly lead to the deaths of Americans. He spends time arguing for an assault weapons ban that his own justice department concluded would save no lives, or so few lives as to be unmeasurable, but won't perform his basic constitutional duty to enforce one small part of immigration law against violent criminals in a way that will 100% save numerous lives.

And building a wall is no more extreme than giving full citizenship to 10-30 million illegal immigrants, and implementing a policy of catch and release (please show up for your court date and try to avoid crime) for illegal immigrants caught in the US. This is the Democrat position.

[strichener]

So how come his website has no policies on it? Has he ever said how he will fulfill any of these commitments? And why would any Republican vote for him? Apart from cutting benefits from the underclass, killing terrorists' families and upscaling torture techniques from mere waterboarding and getting the Mexicans to build a huge fucking wall, obviously.

I am in the states just now and the amount of absolute fuckwits that he is appealing to is worrysome.

In my conversations, most of the people that are voting for him tonight are doing so for a single soundbite that they have heard. Soundbites such as reducing Federal healthcare costs by forcing drug companies to lower prices ($300bln alleged savings even though that is more than they actually spend!) or his mexican bashing etc.

Not one person have I spoken to that thinks he is actually different to the other politicians. Many actually think he is on an ego trip and will resign after a year.

Bampots the lot of them