Mr Bairn Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Calling it now. The SNP have spent a good portion of the last five years telling us all how the Tories have no mandate to rule Scotland because the electorate of Scotland overwhelmingly rejected them at the polls. Going by this logic, coming Friday 8th May, Labour will have no mandate to govern Scotland because, let's face it, we all expect them to be overwhelmingly rejected at the polls. This may not be the popular opinion but I believe the SNP should refuse to support any government assuming Labour are reduced to a handful of Scottish MPs (I think they'll get 21, but most expect single figures). With the expected Lib Dem collapse, the SNP refusing to support either Labour or the Tories will pretty much force some kind of agreement between the two largest parties, and this would be great news for the SNP as they would be able to form the main opposition at Westminster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Calling it now. The SNP have spent a good portion of the last five years telling us all how the Tories have no mandate to rule Scotland because the electorate of Scotland overwhelmingly rejected them at the polls. Going by this logic, coming Friday 8th May, Labour will have no mandate to govern Scotland because, let's face it, we all expect them to be overwhelmingly rejected at the polls. This may not be the popular opinion but I believe the SNP should refuse to support any government assuming Labour are reduced to a handful of Scottish MPs (I think they'll get 21, but most expect single figures). With the expected Lib Dem collapse, the SNP refusing to support either Labour or the Tories will pretty much force some kind of agreement between the two largest parties, and this would be great news for the SNP as they would be able to form the main opposition at Westminster. Have you considered offering your services as an electoral stragetist? I see your point to an extent but the SNP are standing on a platform of more powers for Scotland. To deliver that they need to have influenece. They won't get that sitting on the sidelines. The quantum leap in the SNPs fortunes has been through demonstrating they are a party of delivery and not just protest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 There is some logic in this but one caveat, Labour would have to be biggest party. As, if not.... Cameron could go in as PM and SNP could stop this. Personally I couldn't give a feck... Scotland has changed at the 45 odd % really dont give a flying feck if cameron or milliband Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Does this not increase the likelihood of an eventual tory government? And this would go down as well as a fart in a lift in Scotland. It also makes the snp look like they're trying to sabotage the UK government - the thing their biggest opponents down south are predicting. Tricky, tricky balance though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted April 5, 2015 Author Share Posted April 5, 2015 Have you considered offering your services as an electoral stragetist? I see your point to an extent but the SNP are standing on a platform of more powers for Scotland. To deliver that they need to have influenece. They won't get that sitting on the sidelines. The quantum leap in the SNPs fortunes has been through demonstrating they are a party of delivery and not just protest. It might be good news for them in the short term to get some policy concessions from Labour, but if the SNP go down to London to be a pain in the arse, IMO it basically forces a LAB/CON coalition or a second election, which would be good for the independence movement IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 The SNP, knowing that they cannot themselves form a UK government, have campaigned on the promise that they will support a Labour government and keep the Tories out of No 10. They will also try to use their influence to push Labour towards a more radical position. It has been the mantra of the SNP campaign. So if the Scottish people decide to overwhelmingly vote SNP then the SNP MPs should just change their minds after 8 May? Fucking cretinous idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 If Labour and the Tories both try to form a government and fail would Her Maj then have to give the SNP a shot at it as well if they have the third most seats? The reason I ask is that not backing Labour could also lead to that scenario if the polling numbers don't shift significantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyAffro Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 This is a trolling thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC92 Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 The SNP were able to bring the question of independence by first demonstrating that they were a viable alternative to Labour and then by demonstrating competence in government (or even if you disagree, perceived competence, which is just as important). Assuming the role of saboteurs and being associated with constitutional chaos is exactly in opposition to this. Sure, it might appeal to fundamentalists but they're not the ones that need convincing are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted April 5, 2015 Author Share Posted April 5, 2015 If Labour and the Tories both try to form a government and fail would Her Maj then have to give the SNP a shot at it as well if they have the third most seats? The reason I ask is that not backing Labour could also lead to that scenario if the polling numbers don't shift significantly. No, if no coalition is formed before the Queen's speech, then David Cameron gets the first chance to pass a Queen's speech. If that fails Miliband has 14 days to pass a Queen's speech, and if he fails then it's back to the polls http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/general-election-2015-what-happens-if-no-one-wins-10147685.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 No, if no coalition is formed before the Queen's speech, then David Cameron gets the first chance to pass a Queen's speech. If that fails Miliband has 14 days to pass a Queen's speech, and if he fails then it's back to the polls http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/general-election-2015-what-happens-if-no-one-wins-10147685.html Only goes back to the polls if there's a 2/3rds majority in favour. Otherwise there will be no Government, like Belgium had (or didn't) for more than a year. Did pretty well apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Mr Bairn, arch-Unionist, desperately concern trolling for a scenario which is still disastrous for his own cause if it would at least hurt the SNP. This is what we're up against, folks: political vandals who would rather the whole country were burned to the ground than lose their ministerial BMWs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyAffro Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 The entire no side is disgusting. Even if you believed the lie about currency union, it meant that the British government would rather damage our economy and theirs out of spite than see us go peacefully and cooperate in future for our mutual benefit. I didn't know Mr Bairn was a no voter thought he was just a bit immature, but that makes more sense now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Politics eh. Turns out in nations of the tens of millions you cant get everything you want and have to compromise. Purity of idealism is fantastic if your want to be some Sparticist purist hanging around the pub with you and your 4 other party members. If you want to influence the governance of a country of tens of millions you have to be willing to lend your votes to parties you dont like and support policies you feel compromise your principles. But so long as you do so for a good bargain, get as much or more movement out of your partners, then you have turned your votes into useful policies that change the country in the direction you want. People do not hate the Whig Dems because they compromised, they hate them because the compromised so cheaply. If you are to deal with Labour, be clear about your shared values, be clear that the Labour base will be very amiable to many core SNP values thus the party in general can be persuaded to follow paths you are both comfortable. But also be clear that Labour are the bigger party and have the swing voters in marginals in England to worry over. Confidence and Supply with horse trading between yourselves the LD's is likely the best route for all three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted April 5, 2015 Author Share Posted April 5, 2015 The entire no side is disgusting. Even if you believed the lie about currency union, it meant that the British government would rather damage our economy and theirs out of spite than see us go peacefully and cooperate in future for our mutual benefit. I didn't know Mr Bairn was a no voter thought he was just a bit immature, but that makes more sense now. I voted No in the referendum but believe independence is inevitable within ten years and resistance is futile. My preferred option is a federal UK but I am going to vote for the SNP. This is not a troll thread. I believe the SNP refusing to prop up Miliband is a better way to get independence because it allows them to continue the line that Scotland is stuck with a government it didn't vote for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 I voted No in the referendum but believe independence is inevitable within ten years and resistance is futile. My preferred option is a federal UK but I am going to vote for the SNP. This is not a troll thread. I believe the SNP refusing to prop up Miliband is a better way to get independence because it allows them to continue the line that Scotland is stuck with a government it didn't vote for. But Scotland would get the post election influence and that's something it's never had before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyAffro Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 I voted No in the referendum but believe independence is inevitable within ten years and resistance is futile. My preferred option is a federal UK but I am going to vote for the SNP. This is not a troll thread. I believe the SNP refusing to prop up Miliband is a better way to get independence because it allows them to continue the line that Scotland is stuck with a government it didn't vote for. You seem a little confused. I think you'll see the light eventually though and support independence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted April 5, 2015 Author Share Posted April 5, 2015 Mr Bairn, arch-Unionist, desperately concern trolling for a scenario which is still disastrous for his own cause if it would at least hurt the SNP. This is what we're up against, folks: political vandals who would rather the whole country were burned to the ground than lose their ministerial BMWs. I'm pretty sure I have next to no idea what you're on about. Let me get this straight. The SNP want independence, and them refusing to back any UK government would be an utter disaster for the "arch unionist cause" It seems like the only government that would work without SNP support would be a LAB-CON agreement. Couple that with a large SNP majority in 2016 and you have independence on a pedestal IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted April 5, 2015 Author Share Posted April 5, 2015 But Scotland would get the post election influence and that's something it's never had before. Whilst it is true that the SNP could extract some more powers to Holyrood and maybe some kind of compromise on Trident, I think this would delay independence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 I think we should get 'resistance is futile' as the slogan for the next referendum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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