Peppino Impastato Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 No, you can, a more progressive system allows for investment in services most used by lower percentile users while cutting their tax burden - it's about creating the optimal tax system for the economic demographics you have, that allows for a decent level of public service while keeping disposable income as high as possible (the other thing I would do is incentivise employers to pay the living wage, not as good as having that function devolved but it could have a limited impact). The trouble here is that as part of a unitary state it's easy for capital to take flight, in other words, for the well off to re-domicile themselves in England for tax purposes. I get that, it's why for months I reckoned it was important to be radical on taxation of property - something that cannot be easily moved, and I'm more than welcoming of any movement towards an LVT. Still, it's insulting to see the SNP try the same 'raise revenue by not allowing a cut' rhetoric that Labour played with over APD. Barely, anaemic growth Isall Iincome tax can affect. The SNPs extra money is really not less money, so in some senses it's extra. It's not the same as labour with APD as they were spending new money which didn't exist, the snp have simply not implemented a change that would have reduced revenue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Barely, anaemic growth Isall Iincome tax can affect. The SNPs extra money is really not less money, so in some senses it's extra. It's not the same as labour with APD as they were spending new money which didn't exist, the snp have simply not implemented a change that would have reduced revenue. As I said above, if compared to future rUK revenues then yes, it's extra, if compared to current Scottish revenues, it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossbill Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Am I understanding the Labour council tax replacement correctly - they plan to tax directly against property value, rather than based on regional banding? Surely, based on the massive differentials between property prices around the country, this is a recipe for chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 As I said above, if compared to future rUK revenues then yes, it's extra, if compared to current Scottish revenues, it's not. That's true, as opposed to APDwwhich wasn't extra no matter what way you look at it, so to compare the two was unfair and disingenuous on your part. All governments put a positive spin on their decisions that's fine, in labour's case they were simply lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 That's true, as opposed to APDwwhich wasn't extra no matter what way you look at it, so to compare the two was unfair and disingenuous on your part. All governments put a positive spin on their decisions that's fine, in labour's case they were simply lying. possibly unfair but certainly not disingenuous. Labour's take on APD was to examine the present and future budgets of another administration and pretend the difference was 'extra', which the idiots then spent over and over again. That's not a world away from the SNP claiming that not implementing the Tory tax cuts are 'additional'. It's not even a progressive change to the tax system - it just stops it getting more regressive. Of course, I made the mistake of looking it purely in terms of changes to SNP policy vs a static Labour one, and without realising the impact Osborne's budget would have on Labour's flat rate rise in income tax policy. As noted in a later post, Labour policy effectively passes on Osborne's 40p tax cut with a penny increase, thus their policy becomes more regressive and of course raises less overall. Any real additional income in the Scottish tax take should be the difference between the SNP freezing current income tax rates and Labour adding a flat penny onto the Tory rates. Thus you are finally comparing apples with apples. Of course, all Osborne has to do is reverse that cut and any additional income from the policy dissapears - under SNP plans the tax take is the same next year as this year. If you take the two tax plans side by side, the SNP one is eminantly more sensible. There is a genuine kick up in CT revenue, and there is at least the same income tax take for the moment. The Labour policy on both is a shambles, the net effect of which might not even be any extra revenue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 possibly unfair but certainly not disingenuous. Labour's take on APD was to examine the present and future budgets of another administration and pretend the difference was 'extra', which the idiots then spent over and over again. That's not a world away from the SNP claiming that not implementing the Tory tax cuts are 'additional'. It's not even a progressive change to the tax system - it just stops it getting more regressive. Of course, I made the mistake of looking it purely in terms of changes to SNP policy vs a static Labour one, and without realising the impact Osborne's budget would have on Labour's flat rate rise in income tax policy. As noted in a later post, Labour policy effectively passes on Osborne's 40p tax cut with a penny increase, thus their policy becomes more regressive and of course raises less overall. Any real additional income in the Scottish tax take should be the difference between the SNP freezing current income tax rates and Labour adding a flat penny onto the Tory rates. Thus you are finally comparing apples with apples. Of course, all Osborne has to do is reverse that cut and any additional income from the policy dissapears - under SNP plans the tax take is the same next year as this year. If you take the two tax plans side by side, the SNP one is eminantly more sensible. There is a genuine kick up in CT revenue, and there is at least the same income tax take for the moment. The Labour policy on both is a shambles, the net effect of which might not even be any extra revenue. Fair enough don't disagree with much there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 I criticised the SNP for not being radical with their policy but it is still better than the dog's breakfast that Labour has produced. It looks like the work of an economic illiterate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 SNP's safe route opened the door for Labour here. Instead they give us this incoherent rabble. Honestly, what's the point? Do they not have any economic advisors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 SNP's safe route opened the door for Labour here. Instead they give us this incoherent rabble. Honestly, what's the point? Do they not have any economic advisors? Jackie Baillie will probably be filling that role with her ample frame. She seems to be ubiquitous in slab policy circles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 SNP's safe route opened the door for Labour here. Instead they give us this incoherent rabble. Honestly, what's the point? Do they not have any economic advisors? Yeahthis is the 'socialist' tax plan put forward by'socialist' Dugdale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Jackie Baillie will probably be filling that role with her ample frame. She seems to be ubiquitous in slab policy circles. Jackie Baillie does love a filled roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Jackie Baillie does love a filled roll. Ham? :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Willie Rennie on Radio Scotland news just now. Moan moan SNPbad..... Presenter asks what the Lib Dems will do (aye,I know) 'Oh I can't tell you that,that's for another day. Willie Rennie is a Tom McB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capybara Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Willie Rennie on Radio Scotland news just now. Moan moan SNPbad..... Presenter asks what the Lib Dems will do (aye,I know) 'Oh I can't tell you that,that's for another day. Willie Rennie is a Tom McB. All I would say if Rennie is the answer, it must be a bloody stupid question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevthedee Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Willie Rennie on Radio Scotland news just now. Moan moan SNPbad..... Presenter asks what the Lib Dems will do (aye,I know) 'Oh I can't tell you that,that's for another day. Willie Rennie is a Tom McB. Do you cry when people ask questions of the SNP ?? Tut tut how dare they. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Do you cry when people ask questions of the SNP ?? Tut tut how dare they. He wrote "asked [Rennie] what the Lib Dems would do". You're trying too hard. First rule of comedy - keep the "dumb" character vaguely grounded in reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevthedee Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 He wrote "asked [Rennie] what the Lib Dems would do". You're trying too hard. First rule of comedy - keep the "dumb" character vaguely grounded in reality. You missed moan moan SNP bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 You missed moan moan SNP bad No I didn't, Mickey love. Perhaps you can explain what specific questions Rennie asked of the SNP during his moan. All that mjw said was that the little weasel complained about the SNP policies but refused to answer questions put to him about Lib Dem policy. Do please redeem "comedykev" by explaining how that constitutes "asking questions of the SNP". Try and do it without drooling on your keyboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Do you cry when people ask questions of the SNP ?? Tut tut how dare they. The question wasn't being asked of the SNP though,it was being asked of Scottish Lib Dem leader Willie Rennie.Did I not make that clear enough for you in my post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Do you cry when people ask questions of the SNP ?? Aye. With laughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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