AUFC90 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 My point is that the UK government first and foremost have a duty to protect their own citizens. This would also be the responsibility of the SNP in an independent Scotland. If civilians living over in ISIS are caught up in the gunfire as a result of the UK government attacking the terrorists then that's a price worth paying by the UK government IMO. Millions dead since 9/11. That's some amount of crossfire. Please explain how bombing people in Syria keeps the UK safe ? When was the last ISIS attack on the UK ? The last terrorist attack on British soil was committed by British citizens. More money on intelligence and police is the only way to improve safety but by all means bomb the shit out of the middle east if you want. It's certainly improved the situation over the last decade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortar Bored Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 What's the prices for holidays in ISIS at the moment? Lovely destination with golden sands, do they have a "hub" airport just in case I fancy travelling to the outer reaches of this mythical land? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 The best way to protect your own citizens would be to not go round pissing off every country that you disagree with.# I assume that you would also think it OK if the USA identified 5 terrorist living next door to you and decided to bomb then knowing that you would be "collateral damage"? Obviously in the name of protecting their own citizens. I find that highly unlikely given that I live in Leith not Libya. Even still, that would be there strategical decision. I find it highly unlikely that the Americans would bomb targets in the UK. Millions dead since 9/11. That's some amount of crossfire. Please explain how bombing people in Syria keeps the UK safe ? When was the last ISIS attack on the UK ? The last terrorist attack on British soil was committed by British citizens. More money on intelligence and police is the only way to improve safety but by all means bomb the shit out of the middle east if you want. It's certainly improved the situation over the last decade The main reason we haven't had attacks from ISIS is because we have the best intelligence services in the world. Several foiled plots in recent years where as the French equivalent to MI5 have failed three times in a year. Most terror attacks are committed by homegrown Jihadists however these guys don't train themselves in their bedrooms, they go to ISIS and to ISIL and learn from the professionals. If they were killed out there then they would not be able to return and cause terror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I find that highly unlikely given that I live in Leith not Libya. Even still, that would be there strategical decision. I find it highly unlikely that the Americans would bomb targets in the UK. The main reason we haven't had attacks from ISIS is because we have the best intelligence services in the world. Several foiled plots in recent years where as the French equivalent to MI5 have failed three times in a year. Most terror attacks are committed by homegrown Jihadists however these guys don't train themselves in their bedrooms, they go to ISIS and to ISIL and learn from the professionals. If they were killed out there then they would not be able to return and cause terror. How many British born people have managed to travel all the way to Syria, get trained up, and came all the way back ? My guess is none. Simple question. Has the bombing of Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Syria ,over the last decade, decreased or increased the threat of terrorism ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Simple question. Has the bombing of Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Syria ,over the last decade, decreased or increased the threat of terrorism ? I don't think the members of the caliphate are going to simply remove us from their target list if we announce an immediate ceasefire and stop dropping bombs on places like ISIS, Afghanistan, ISIL and Pakistan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Not answering the question as predicted. Fact is there's more terrorist because of such bombing runs. Bombing creates terrorists. If your Afghan village has just been flattened who do you blame ? If your neighbours family has just been incinerated who do you blame ? It's really quite simple. More bombs, more terrorists and the snowball will get bigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Moral dilemma: You can bomb an area such that the bomb will kill 5 terrorists and 5 civilians. If you don't drop the bomb the terrorists will come to the UK and kill 5 civilians here. I'm dropping that bomb and not even giving it a second thought. What If one of those civilians is you? That changes things a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 What If one of those civilians is you? That changes things a lot. I don't live in ISIS or ISIL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speckled tangerine Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Not answering the question as predicted. Fact is there's more terrorist because of such bombing runs. Bombing creates terrorists. If your Afghan village has just been flattened who do you blame ? If your neighbours family has just been incinerated who do you blame ? It's really quite simple. More bombs, more terrorists and the snowball will get bigger. Absolutely correct. Have we a strategy for the middle east post isis? Have we f**k. It looks like more of the same like Iraq/Afghanistan/Libya where we bomb away without any real idea what the implications are. Thirty years of shite foreign policy has led us here. Current foreign policy is shite. I'd imagine future foreign policy will be shite. Sometime in the future after civilian deaths galore we'll start talking at some stage like we did with the IRA and reputedly, the Taliban. Until then...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilky1878 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Moral dilemma: You can bomb an area such that the bomb will kill 5 terrorists and 5 civilians. If you don't drop the bomb the terrorists will come to the UK and kill 5 civilians here. I'm dropping that bomb and not even giving it a second thought. 5 civilians dead is 5 too many no matter where you or they live. The fact is we created these problems, whether that be directly or indirectly and also funded isis, again whether that be directly or indirectly and are now facing the backlash. Bombing civilians doesn't make any steps forward it infact will take us multiple steps back as more hatred for the West is created in the middle east and more join terrorist groups like isis. Has anyone informed you yet that isis and isil are the same thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Has anyone informed you yet that isis and isil are the same thing?He's spent most of the week trolling threads with this nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Absolutely correct. Have we a strategy for the middle east post isis? Have we f**k. It looks like more of the same like Iraq/Afghanistan/Libya where we bomb away without any real idea what the implications are. Thirty years of shite foreign policy has led us here. Current foreign policy is shite. I'd imagine future foreign policy will be shite. Sometime in the future after civilian deaths galore we'll start talking at some stage like we did with the IRA and reputedly, the Taliban. Until then...... I honestly don't even think they care about strategy to be honest. Once ISIS is away some other group will take their place and so on and so on. Wouldn't surprise me if it suits The US, UK and our allies the Saudi's and Qataris if there is perpetual instability in the likes of Iraq and Libya. It's times like this I genuinely wish I wasn't born in such a warmongering country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 5 civilians dead is 5 too many no matter where you or they live. The fact is we created these problems, whether that be directly or indirectly and also funded isis, again whether that be directly or indirectly and are now facing the backlash. Bombing civilians doesn't make any steps forward it infact will take us multiple steps back as more hatred for the West is created in the middle east and more join terrorist groups like isis. Has anyone informed you yet that isis and isil are the same thing? He's still at the "ISIS is a place" stage. Give the man time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Mr Bairn essentially believes that the lives of white Brits are fundamentally more valuable than brown Syrians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Unionists still shitting it I see http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-mundell-scotland-secretary-says-country-more-at-risk-from-terrorism-if-it-becomes-independent-a6740936.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I find that highly unlikely given that I live in Leith not Libya. Even still, that would be there strategical decision. I find it highly unlikely that the Americans would bomb targets in the UK. So is that you in agreement that if the America killed you in taking out your neighbours then this is acceptable. Fucking mental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Unionists still shitting it I see http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-mundell-scotland-secretary-says-country-more-at-risk-from-terrorism-if-it-becomes-independent-a6740936.html I could be wrong, but the only terrorist attack i can remember taking place in Scotland involved a piss-poor bit of driving at Glasgow Airport which finished with a thick baggage handler punching the f**k out of a burning would-be terrorist. I think we'd be OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I could be wrong, but the only terrorist attack i can remember taking place in Scotland involved a piss-poor bit of driving at Glasgow Airport which finished with a thick baggage handler punching the f**k out of a burning would-be terrorist. I think we'd be OK. Gung-ho baggage characters are a benefit of Westminster rule. If we governed ourselves they would all relocate to London. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 5 civilians dead is 5 too many no matter where you or they live. The fact is we created these problems, whether that be directly or indirectly and also funded isis, again whether that be directly or indirectly and are now facing the backlash. Bombing civilians doesn't make any steps forward it infact will take us multiple steps back as more hatred for the West is created in the middle east and more join terrorist groups like isis. Has anyone informed you yet that isis and isil are the same thing? Wrong. ISIS is the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria. ISIL is the Islamic State of Iraq and Libya. Mr Bairn essentially believes that the lives of white Brits are fundamentally more valuable than brown Syrians. The lives of Brits are "fundamentally more valuable" than Syrians from the perspective of the UK government, regardless of race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenconner Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 ISIL is the Islamic State of Iraq and Libya. ??? Some amount of rockets on here. Sure it's a wind up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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