~~~ Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 The guy last night saying "the SNP are funded by they Millionaires who won the lottery and we canny compete with that." Such a bitter bitter man The irony being a story was in the news yesterday saying Labour outspent the SNP at the last General Election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevthedee Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 The irony being a story was in the news yesterday saying Labour outspent the SNP at the last General Election. it will just be the snp underspending again,saving it until next years election gets close then they will splash the cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Herald Editor@Herald_EditorJun 19 Not one Glasgow Labour MSP has backed council leader Gordon Matheson to be the party's deputy http://bit.ly/1I1PL5C pic.twitter.com/GWhl2bwgJV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Ad Lib - hero to zero Pish poor comments on here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 it will just be the snp underspending again,saving it until next years election gets close then they will splash the cash. Why would they need to? They have literally no competition as things stand. The SNP are getting into 'monkey in a yellow rosette' territory in most constituencies in Scotland now. Hopefully the level of entitlement shown by the labour party in Scotland doesn't seep into the SNP's psyche as then we'd have yet another busted flush to add to the ever growing collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Ad Lib - hero to zero Pish poor comments on here He was never a hero. He stood for the Lib Dems. As I said, credit where it's due for standing, but that doesn't mean he isn't a complete c**t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Can't talk for the Fib Dems but I know from experience in the Labour Party 20+ years ago that many of the activists were as thick as pigshit. Come to think of it - so were many of the elected reps. Ironically, the one group of people who did at least have a coherent (if flawed) vision were some on the Trotskyite left who would run rings round the more intellectually challenged hacks. Totally agree. It's surprising how many people who were (are) involved in politics have no real political understanding. I don't mean people need to have a degree in politics to participate but many folk I knew when I was politically active would struggle to explain why they believed what they proclaimed to believe. Your point about the Trots is also valid, they understood power structures in society and realised that without altering these radically then any societal changes were largely cosmetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Labour haven't been swept away on a tsunami or an earthquake. it's more like when you see a house on a clifftop collapse into the sea following years or gradual erosion. The actual collpase may look spectacular but the causes of it have been set in motion long before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 I really hope Scottish Labour hurtle towards extinction the sooner the better. I'll worry about having good opposition post independence. And even then who says the main opposition has to be Labour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fotbawmad Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 "Democracy should not be about executing the will of the people. No, it should be the process whereby we secure the consent of the people to the policies of those qualified to decide on their behalf." Sir Humphrey Appleby Fundamentally, that's someone trying to justify their beliefs in central planning. Never has worked and never will. Yet they'll always be intellectuals who'll be arrogant enough to think they can make it work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieInDundee Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Just gave this a watch. What a load of self-pitying shite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I really hope Scottish Labour hurtle towards extinction the sooner the better. I'll worry about having good opposition post independence. And even then who says the main opposition has to be Labour? Don't underestimate the importance of a 'good' opposition if you value the effectiveness of a representative democracy; it's one of these concepts that's easy to dismiss but is fundamental in holding politicians to account. The easiest thing to do when you support a particular brand of politics is to gloss over weaknesses and failures; Scottish Labour did that for years and the people of this country paid the price. I can't recall anyone on here saying that Labour has to be the main opposition but unless there is a significant move to the left by the SNP then I think either Labour in its present form or, preferably IMO, a new left of centre party will emerge and will be the main opposition. At least until there is a fundamental realignment of political and social thought in Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 Don't underestimate the importance of a 'good' opposition if you value the effectiveness of a representative democracy; it's one of these concepts that's easy to dismiss but is fundamental in holding politicians to account. The easiest thing to do when you support a particular brand of politics is to gloss over weaknesses and failures; Scottish Labour did that for years and the people of this country paid the price. I can't recall anyone on here saying that Labour has to be the main opposition but unless there is a significant move to the left by the SNP then I think either Labour in its present form or, preferably IMO, a new left of centre party will emerge and will be the main opposition. At least until there is a fundamental realignment of political and social thought in Scotland. I agree with most of what you say, but I don't want a "good opposition" this side of independence. I want weak opposition if I'm being honest. Once we become an independent nation I would like to see a strong opposition to hold government to account, no matter the colour of government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameron1875 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 The comment about the euromillion funding was absolute desperation. Pretty much the p&b term 'scrambling for relevance'. IIRC the donation was actually quite soon after J.K. Rowling donated £1 mill to Better Together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I agree with most of what you say, but I don't want a "good opposition" this side of independence. I want weak opposition if I'm being honest. Once we become an independent nation I would like to see a strong opposition to hold government to account, no matter the colour of government. I would like to think that we could independence within the next five years, but it could easily be ten or fifteen or more. During that time we will have a Holyrood government whose decisions will impact upon the lives of millions of Scots, I want any such government to be effective and accountable. A strong, well organised and credible opposition has an important role to play in that. I would also suggest that political complacency is not a quick process, it is a gradual one; but often we are not aware of how complacent we have become until a major issue highlights our lack of introspection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I would like to think that we could independence within the next five years, but it could easily be ten or fifteen or more. During that time we will have a Holyrood government whose decisions will impact upon the lives of millions of Scots, I want any such government to be effective and accountable. A strong, well organised and credible opposition has an important role to play in that. I would also suggest that political complacency is not a quick process, it is a gradual one; but often we are not aware of how complacent we have become until a major issue highlights our lack of introspection. Agreed. One of the major reasons for Labour's fall was not particular policy decisions but their general taking people for granted. That complacency, at times arrogance, meant that an awful lot of incompetents within Labour's ranks made it further up the greasy pole than they should ever have done. The lack of credible opposition within Labour"s own ranks, the lack of questioning of the direction and policy of the party, meant a plethora of bad decisions reinforcing that view of incompetence. I am no fan of independence (nor of the present constitutional arrangements for that matter) but if it were to happen I sure as hell would want it to work - constructive criticism is a necessary part of that political process. That doesn't mean carping from the sidelines as Labour has done but proposing solutions to problems or positive alternatives. Labour has spent so long telling us what they are not that they have forgotten what they are meant to stand for. Whilst Labour could reform I just don't see any willingness to do so, particularly from the dinosaurs in the central belt. Even by some miracle they did reform, to become a completely autonomous organisation, who would believe the change was genuine? For me there is only one solution - a new Scottish political party of the left, democratic, open and with principles and a real vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McLean's Ghost Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Herald Editor@Herald_EditorJun 19 Not one Glasgow Labour MSP has backed council leader Gordon Matheson to be the party's deputy http://bit.ly/1I1PL5C pic.twitter.com/GWhl2bwgJV Can't have Gordy jumping to the top of the list and putting one of them out of a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fotbawmad Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I would like to think that we could independence within the next five years, but it could easily be ten or fifteen or more. During that time we will have a Holyrood government whose decisions will impact upon the lives of millions of Scots, I want any such government to be effective and accountable. A strong, well organised and credible opposition has an important role to play in that. I would also suggest that political complacency is not a quick process, it is a gradual one; but often we are not aware of how complacent we have become until a major issue highlights our lack of introspection. Thanks to the Green vote triggering future referendums will be much easier. However, another referendum won't be called till we're sure we can confidently win. Last I checked the polls were still 53/47 in favour of No. We'll probably have to wait till 2024 till we can be reasonably confident of a win. For now, I do want to see landslide SNP wins in both Westminster and Holyrood elections until we get independence. For me there is only one solution - a new Scottish political party of the left, democratic, open and with principles and a real vision. Doesn't the SNP already capture that section of the vote? There is the Greens as well as the SSP (who IMO are borderline communist). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Thanks to the Green vote triggering future referendums will be much easier. However, another referendum won't be called till we're sure we can confidently win. Last I checked the polls were still 53/47 in favour of No. We'll probably have to wait till 2024 till we can be reasonably confident of a win. For now, I do want to see landslide SNP wins in both Westminster and Holyrood elections until we get independence. Doesn't the SNP already capture that section of the vote? There is the Greens as well as the SSP (who IMO are borderline communist). Perhaps the reason for the SNP picking up those votes is that there is nowhere else for disillusioned Socialists to go - I voted for Hosie at the GE as there was no other credible alternative. As for the Greens - I have serious long-standing reservations about many of their policies. The SSP (which are certainly not Communist) is a non-starter because I'm not a Trotskyite - not to mention that they have been a shambles since the fallout with Sheridan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 The interesting thing about this show of blood letting was the barely contained glee that the msp side had when their mp counterparts got their comeuppance in may. A definitive whiff of 'i fucking told you so' about the likes of grey towards the likes of Davidson. Popcornesque... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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