By election updates

[dorlomin]

The hypothesised army of previous non voters turning up for the "new politics" have not materialised. 

The Lib Dems are an acceptable anti Tory protest vote again, 18 months after being in coalition with them. 

 

[Fullerene]

If you lived in Richmond and thought that Brexit was a really bad idea and still do - who do you vote for?
When you are one of 48% who voted Remain and feel your opinion is being ignored.
Especially for those people who previously held their nose and voted Tory because they thought the Tories might be sufficiently competent and pragmatic to look after the economy - or at least more so than the other parties.
It seems the government are blindly pursuing the hardest Brexit possible - even if it wrecks the economy.
Nobody knows whether the Labour Party is really for Brexit or against it - and probably don't care.

I do not live Richmond and I have never voted Tory but I can understand why the voters of Richmond voted the way they did.

[Antlion]

41 minutes ago, Fullerene said:

If you lived in Richmond and thought that Brexit was a really bad idea and still do - who do you vote for?
When you are one of 48% who voted Remain and feel your opinion is being ignored.
Especially for those people who previously held their nose and voted Tory because they thought the Tories might be sufficiently competent and pragmatic to look after the economy - or at least more so than the other parties.
It seems the government are blindly pursuing the hardest Brexit possible - even if it wrecks the economy.
Nobody knows whether the Labour Party is really for Brexit or against it - and probably don't care.

I do not live Richmond and I have never voted Tory but I can understand why the voters of Richmond voted the way they did.

It would be odd for people who voted Tory to spit the dummy because they got the result of the Tories' policy: a Euroref. They knew voting Tory would bring that, and that Brexit was a highly possible outcome.

[Fullerene]

.. or maybe they didn't want Labour to win and were prepared to accept a referendum on the basis that the British people would never be so stupid as to vote to leave.
 

[BerwickMad]

Turnout was down about 36% from 2015, so pro rata Labour's vote would be 4669 this time. In reality it was 1515. Are you really judging Corbyn on 3000 Labour voters tactically going for the only candidate likely to win?

Pretty funny result. 

I'm not just judging Corbyn on one result, but I do find it telling that only the Lib Dems could provide a coherent message for people to get behind. You need to dig deep to try and figure out what Labour actually stand for at the moment.

I've just watched Diane Abbot on Andrew Neil. He provided her with 3 statements from the party shadow benches on immigration, all contradicting each other. Are we supposed to just guess which one is right? John McDonnell is all over the place, announcing things out of nowhere that then seem to disappear a few weeks later. Whether you believe in the overall politics of Corbyn or not, it's all over the place, as it was before the referendum. It's utterly horrific leadership.

[Antlion]

7 minutes ago, Fullerene said:

.. or maybe they didn't want Labour to win and were prepared to accept a referendum on the basis that the British people would never be so stupid as to vote to leave.
 

Then more fool them. I'm suddenly reminded of that woman on QT ranting about what the Tories were up to and claiming, "I voted for you, why are you doing this?!"

[Fullerene]

8 minutes ago, Antlion said:

Then more fool them. I'm suddenly reminded of that woman on QT ranting about what the Tories were up to and claiming, "I voted for you, why are you doing this?!"

I agree.  Then again I find it easy to put fool and Tory voter in the sentence.

[Bishop Briggs]

On 04/12/2016 at 10:57, Fullerene said:

If you lived in Richmond and thought that Brexit was a really bad idea and still do - who do you vote for?
When you are one of 48% who voted Remain and feel your opinion is being ignored.
Especially for those people who previously held their nose and voted Tory because they thought the Tories might be sufficiently competent and pragmatic to look after the economy - or at least more so than the other parties.
It seems the government are blindly pursuing the hardest Brexit possible - even if it wrecks the economy.
Nobody knows whether the Labour Party is really for Brexit or against it - and probably don't care.

I do not live Richmond and I have never voted Tory but I can understand why the voters of Richmond voted the way they did.

 

The opinion of 48% who voted Remain is not being ignored. They just lost to the 52% who voted leave. That's the harsh reality of democracy.

Using your bizarre logic, the voters who supported Goldsmith in the by-election could argue that their opinion was ignored. Should they be campaigning for another by-election?

 

[Cream Cheese]

3 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

 

The opinion of 48% who voted Remain is not being ignored. They just lost to the 52% who voted leave. That's the harsh reality of democracy.

Using your bizarre logic, the voters who supported Goldsmith in the by-election could argue that their opinion was ignored. Should they be campaigning for another by-election?

 

How can you lose to a side that doesn't even know what they want themselves? They're all infighting amongst themselves over what Brexit actually means. Morons.

[Fullerene]

13 minutes ago, Cream Cheese said:

How can you lose to a side that doesn't even know what they want themselves? They're all infighting amongst themselves over what Brexit actually means. Morons.

Correct

18 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

 

The opinion of 48% who voted Remain is not being ignored. They just lost to the 52% who voted leave. That's the harsh reality of democracy.

Using your bizarre logic, the voters who supported Goldsmith in the by-election could argue that their opinion was ignored. Should they be campaigning for another by-election?

I am not asking for a re-run of the referendum.  .. but it seems that only those who voted Leave are entitled to have their voice heard.

Those who voted Remain are called Remoaners and told to shut up. 

[Bishop Briggs]

15 minutes ago, Cream Cheese said:

How can you lose to a side that doesn't even know what they want themselves? They're all infighting amongst themselves over what Brexit actually means. Morons.

The Leave campaign, which won the referendum, is not running the Government. It had the support of some notable Labour politicians too. The Prime Minister and Chancellor, especially the latter, campaigned for Remain.

Can you tell me what the SNP really wants post Brexit? Does it want a Single Market trade deal (i.e. a like Canada's) or Single Market membership (like Norway) which means freedom of movement and full compliance with EU laws imposed from Brussels. At the moment Sturgeon only talks about access. She is far from clear about what Brexit should mean for Scotland. 

[Cream Cheese]

3 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

The Leave campaign, which won the referendum, is not running the Government. It had the support of some notable Labour politicians too. The Prime Minister and Chancellor, especially the latter, campaigned for Remain.

Can you tell me what the SNP really wants post Brexit? Does it want a Single Market trade deal (i.e. a like Canada's) or Single Market membership (like Norway) which means freedom of movement and full compliance with EU laws imposed from Brussels. At the moment Sturgeon only talks about access. She is far from clear about what Brexit should mean for Scotland. 

Why should she be clear on what Brexit means for Scotland, considering Scotland never voted for it in the first place? It's the responsibility of the Scottish Parliament to protect the interests of all Scottish residents. Those interests being remaining in the EU in it's entirety, as Scotland voted for.

[Bishop Briggs]

6 minutes ago, Fullerene said:

Correct

I am not asking for a re-run of the referendum.  .. but it seems that only those who voted Leave are entitled to have their voice heard.

Those who voted Remain are called Remoaners and told to shut up. 

The BBC and other pro-EU media outlets are making their voices heard. Any attempt to shut them up is failing. If Remain had won, the Leavers would have been told to shut up. The Remainers can't accept the result and using every possible means to delay or stop Brexit.

 

[Cream Cheese]

3 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

The BBC and other pro-EU media outlets are making their voices heard. Any attempt to shut them up is failing. If Remain had won, the Leavers would have been told to shut up. The Remainers can't accept the result and using every possible means to delay or stop Brexit.

 

Brexit needs to be delayed, because leaving is a complex process that needs to be scrutinized every step of the way to ensure the UK gets the best possible brexit deal. Only complete dunderheads expect it all to happen instantaneously without scrutiny of each step of the process.

[Bishop Briggs]

1 minute ago, Cream Cheese said:

Why should she be clear on what Brexit means for Scotland, considering Scotland never voted for it in the first place? It's the responsibility of the Scottish Parliament to protect the interests of all Scottish residents. Those interests being remaining in the EU in it's entirety, as Scotland voted for.

Because she, as First Minister, is being consulted by the David Davis (in charge of the negotiations) on what Scotland wants post Brexit.

Like it or not, Scotland voted to remain part of the UK in 2014. Therefore it voted as part of the UK in the Brexit referendum. 

[Cream Cheese]

Just now, Bishop Briggs said:

Because she, as First Minister, is being consulted by the David Davis (in charge of the negotiations) on what Scotland wants post Brexit.

Like it or not, Scotland voted to remain part of the UK in 2014. Therefore it voted as part of the UK in the Brexit referendum. 

So by voting to remain part of the UK and the UK voting to leave the European Union. Why is it the Scottish Governments responsibility to deal with the upcoming shitstorm? It was as people like you put it "a UK matter".

[Bishop Briggs]

Just now, Cream Cheese said:

Brexit needs to be delayed, because leaving is a complex process that needs to be scrutinized every step of the way to ensure the UK gets the best possible brexit deal. Only complete dunderheads expect it all to happen instantaneously without scrutiny of each step of the process.

The Brexit deal will be scrutinised fully after Article 50 is invoked. It will have to approved by Parliament which will have to pass legislation to implement the deal. 

[Bishop Briggs]

1 minute ago, Cream Cheese said:

So by voting to remain part of the UK and the UK voting to leave the European Union. Why is it the Scottish Governments responsibility to deal with the upcoming shitstorm? It was as people like you put it "a UK matter".

You really are thick. The Scottish Government has said it wants to participate fully, as a partner, in the Brexit negotiations. It also has legal responsibilities under the devolution legislation.

[Cream Cheese]

Just now, Bishop Briggs said:

The Brexit deal will be scrutinised fully after Article 50 is invoked. It will have to approved by Parliament which will have to pass legislation to implement the deal. 

It won't have to be approved by Parliament if Heil May and her minions gets their way in court. If that happens, there will be no parliamentary scrutiny and complete control of the matter will fall into the hands of one person.

Do you even understand the current situation?

[Cream Cheese]

1 minute ago, Bishop Briggs said:

You really are thick. The Scottish Government has said it wants to participate fully, as a partner, in the Brexit negotiations. It also has legal responsibilities under the devolution legislation.

So when things go against the will of the Scottish people it's a "UK matter", but when it comes to cleaning up the mess it's a "devolved matter"...... aye, ok then.