Fide Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 And accept the relevant political cost. Indeed. Lying isn't a moral issue in politics. It's about efficacy. Lying is a moral issue in any interaction. Politics is no different. Indeed, elected officials should have a higher moral compass than the people they are elected to represent. Your attitude demonstrates exactly why your party's only elected MP in Scotland is now suffering the indignity of a court case brought by HIS constituents. I look forward to your party losing every deposit in Scotland for years to come if your attitude is typical and accepted within the Lib Dems. Oh, get a haircut too. Hiya Fuzzyafro, hiya pal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Lying is a moral issue in any interaction. Politics is no different. Indeed, elected officials should have a higher moral compass than the people they are elected to represent. Your attitude demonstrates exactly why your party's only elected MP in Scotland is now suffering the indignity of a court case brought by HIS constituents. I look forward to your party losing every deposit in Scotland for years to come if your attitude is typical and accepted within the Lib Dems. Oh, get a haircut too. I think it's unreasonable to expect politicians to have a greater moral compass than the average voter, and there's nothing particularly reprehenible about them having less of a moral compass than many of them. They're legislators. They're not moral leaders. Anyone who expects politicians to be bigger people is asking to be disappointed. Bore off, Graeme. Oh no, you *KNOW MY FIRST NAME*. I'm so scared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 You are way off, there's a little less vitriol in my posts. #spillthebeanzthen Oh no, you *KNOW MY FIRST NAME*. I'm so scared. a) It clearly wasn't a threat b) Bore off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 This is exactly why you are unelectable. Who do you think should be moral leaders for the electorate? Be specific please. I don't believe that the electorate needs moral leadership. I consider that notion utterly patronising of every voter on these islands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I don't believe that the electorate needs moral leadership. I consider that notion utterly patronising of every voter on these islands. So what's the point of having elected members of parliament who are supposed to represent and benefit an entire constituency if they can just lie with impunity and do whatever the f**k they want? It's no wonder the Willie Rennie Travelling Circus is in such a fucking mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 So what's the point of having elected members of parliament who are supposed to represent and benefit an entire constituency if they can just lie with impunity and do whatever the f**k they want? It's no wonder the Willie Rennie Travelling Circus is in such a fucking mess. Elected members of Parliament are there to introduce, scrutinise and pass legislation, and to take on constituency complaints that require attention from government or government agencies. Whether they decide that they want to represent and benefit their constituency, either in part or in its entirety, is merely a political calculation or personal matter for them. It's not a mandatory requirement for them to do their job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Elected members of Parliament are there to introduce, scrutinise and pass legislation, and to take on constituency complaints that require attention from government or government agencies. Whether they decide that they want to represent and benefit their constituency, either in part or in its entirety, is merely a political calculation or personal matter for them. It's not a mandatory requirement for them to do their job. Whilst not being mandatory, would you not agree that there are basic standards an MP should abide by, standards which constituents rightly expect of and deserve from their elected member? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Whilst not being mandatory, would you not agree that there are basic standards an MP should abide by, standards which constituents rightly expect of and deserve from their elected member? There are some standards it might be in their interests to abide by, and which if they're generous spirited they might choose to abide by even though there is no requirement for them to do so. I don't think the electorate "deserve" anything from their representatives in terms of moral standards though, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Generous spirited ffs! That's the moral standards everyone should act along. You are a caricature of the worst politician ever. I find it reprehensible that anyone should impose their moral standards on another person, to be honest. If you don't think someone's actions as a public servant don't meet the standards the alternatives are capable of providing, feel free not to vote for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 That's exactly why you got a tiny percentage of the vote in May. I expect this from my politicians. The truth Not corrupted Assisting their electorate( whether they voted for them or not). Too much to ask? I think it's unreasonable to expect the truth from your politicians. They're human beings and human beings lie. It's innate to our condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkoRaj Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I think it's unreasonable to expect the truth from your politicians. They're human beings and human beings lie. It's innate to our condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I'm very happy for your contribution. It tells me a lot about you. Have I ever lied? Yes Have I ever lied in connection with my employment? Certainly not That's the difference, our elected officials are employed by their electorate. You have different standards- ok. Members of Parliament do not have contracts of employment for tha role. They are remunerated office-holders. Any "lie" they tell is therefore not in connection with their employment, nor is the electorate their employer. Their legal and/or ethical obligations are first and foremost to the legislature and its standing orders; not in any abstract sense to "the people". Alistair Carmichael's statement to which the current court case relates was in his capacity as a Minister of the Crown. This is also not an employment relatonship. They are office-holders at the pleasure of the Crown. These positions are even less so in any arguable sense ones which entail obligations to "the people" or "the electorate" than being a Member of Parliament. Put simply, saying "I've never lied to my line manager in my job" is irrelevant to the question of whether elected legislators or appointed ministers can, should, or will, routinely lie about questions of fact, their own undertakings or those of others, in the course of their ordinary duties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Elected members of Parliament are there to introduce, scrutinise and pass legislation, and to take on constituency complaints that require attention from government or government agencies. Whether they decide that they want to represent and benefit their constituency, either in part or in its entirety, is merely a political calculation or personal matter for them. It's not a mandatory requirement for them to do their job. Integrity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Integrity? Neither necessary nor sufficient to be an effective MP or Minister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Neither necessary nor sufficient to be an effective MP or Minister. And you have the gall to call me moronic! Law makers should not have integrity? Right you are, they are of course called honourable as a joke then are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 And you have the gall to call me moronic! Law makers should not have integrity? Right you are, they are of course called honourable as a joke then are they? I didn't say law-makers shouldn't have integrity. Merely that they don't have to have it. I am comfortable with having mendacious lawmakers as long as there are effective mechanisms for identifying them, pointing it out, and leaving the electorate to make up their own mind at the next election whether they care. They're called Honourable because of historical anachronisms about their loyalty to the Crown and to the House of Commons. It's got f**k all to do with how they conduct themselves vis-a-vis the electorate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 The single biggest lie that can be told in politics is that it is possible to live in a world where politics is honest, open and transparent, or that if only we pick the right politicians they will be more benevolent, truthful and public spirited and that this will rub off into making society and public life an infusion of integrity and justice. It's the biggest lie because it creates false hope and unreasonable expectations of very ordinary people who are just as flawed as the rest of us, always have been and always will be. It creates the partisan divisions that stop us doing real politics in this country. It's endemic in the SNP-bad tribe and its infesting pro-independence politics too. The more we recognise that the world is just a bit shit, human beings are just a bit shit, and that there's nothing that can really be done about it, the better equipped we are dispassionately to call those shit people to account. Politics is about choosing the marginally least shit prospectus that still inhabits reality. It's not about forging new realities, because they don't exist. We are all narcissistic, evil, selfish, loathing and delusional. The road to recovery comes from recognising this is a disease of human nature and not of any one political tribe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddly optomistic Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 The single biggest lie that can be told in politics is that it is possible to live in a world where politics is honest, open and transparent, or that if only we pick the right politicians they will be more benevolent, truthful and public spirited and that this will rub off into making society and public life an infusion of integrity and justice. It's the biggest lie because it creates false hope and unreasonable expectations of very ordinary people who are just as flawed as the rest of us, always have been and always will be. It creates the partisan divisions that stop us doing real politics in this country. It's endemic in the SNP-bad tribe and its infesting pro-independence politics too. The more we recognise that the world is just a bit shit, human beings are just a bit shit, and that there's nothing that can really be done about it, the better equipped we are dispassionately to call those shit people to account. Politics is about choosing the marginally least shit prospectus that still inhabits reality. It's not about forging new realities, because they don't exist. We are all narcissistic, evil, selfish, loathing and delusional. The road to recovery comes from recognising this is a disease of human nature and not of any one political tribe. Ever think of becoming a motivational speaker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todders Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Ad Lib pretty much encapsulates everything wrong with modern day politicians. Thank christ he didn't get within sniffing distance of a seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I think it's a shame that anyone can reach the age of 30 and be an optimist about politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.