Shannon Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 I think Junior football missed a trick by not getting properly involved in pyramid discussion when Highland & Lowland league was created. Junior Football could have pushed for West, East / North to make it far more desirable for top Junior clubs to join the pyramid instead of being outwith the new lowland / Highland league and cash from Scottish Cup and SFA payments plus other grants. Instead sat back, were negative and let old East and South of Scotland teams create their league or choice. In 20-30 years time I do fear for a lot of Junior clubs existence as older small committee's, visiting Craigmark last season I did wonder if would last game there. Probably 4-12 supporters that keep 80-90% of Junior clubs going. Attitudes will change over time and top Junior clubs will eventually join some type of pyramid. Teams may have to stop spending as much on players and invest in the facilities to go forward though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pccabe Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 You've given a very strong perception that Beith are better than university football teams because they're "traditional". Just to be clear, Beith, Linlithgow Rose, Auchinleck Talbot and their ilk are way down the pecking order from the likes of Arbroath, East Fife or clubs at that level and are in no better a position than any of the LL clubs who have done what is necessary to demonstrate a lot of progress in a short space of time. If BSC continue to improve their all round product at the pace they've shown in their first couple of seasons then they'll not be long in cementing their position as an integral part of the game at non league level. Frankly I disagreed completely with their election to the LL (and still do) but they've made a decent fist of it just the same. Maybe so but the idea of scraping a living on the coatails of the Old Firm is not my idea of football. I really don't understand why you watch Junior football as you don't seem to like it very much. Joining the Lowland League would be my odea of football hell on earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dipple burn Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 More like a half pint glass They'd be utter diddies in the senior set up, Population of 3500 looool Maybe this is why Talbot don't want to turn senior. What can a club with a village population of 3500 bring to the senior game except another bowl being shoved out for the ever dwindling handouts from the SFA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Maybe so but the idea of scraping a living on the coatails of the Old Firm is not my idea of football. I really don't understand why you watch Junior football as you don't seem to like it very much. Joining the Lowland League would be my odea of football hell on earth. Why are some forms of money bad but others good? I don't like junior football at all. I couldn't give any fucks about it and if it ceased to exist as an entity tomorrow I'd be a happy man because it's archaic bollocks from top to bottom. The fact that I watch it is nothing to do with the name. I watch Linlithgow Rose, not junior football. I watch football rather than junior football. I love these people - like you - who tell us that if they wanted to go and watch a different grade they'd go and watch Ayr or Kilmarnock. I suggest then that your loyalty to the cause of Beith is built on flimsy foundations if you're suggesting that you wouldn't watch them in a non junior environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Panner Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 I think Junior football missed a trick by not getting properly involved in pyramid discussion when Highland & Lowland league was created. Junior Football could have pushed for West, East / North to make it far more desirable for top Junior clubs to join the pyramid instead of being outwith the new lowland / Highland league and cash from Scottish Cup and SFA payments plus other grants. Instead sat back, were negative and let old East and South of Scotland teams create their league or choice. In 20-30 years time I do fear for a lot of Junior clubs existence as older small committee's, visiting Craigmark last season I did wonder if would last game there. Probably 4-12 supporters that keep 80-90% of Junior clubs going. Attitudes will change over time and top Junior clubs will eventually join some type of pyramid. Teams may have to stop spending as much on players and invest in the facilities to go forward though. Im afraid this is factually incorrect as I am aware of a senior east of Scotland official who consulted with junior clubs over the course of 3 years about joining the Lowland League. To suggest that they sat back and were not involved is totally inaccurate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shannon Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 I can't believe Arbroath fans are trolling the Junior forum anyway!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I can't believe Arbroath fans are trolling the Junior forum anyway!! Tbf a swallow does not a summer make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pccabe Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Why are some forms of money bad but others good? I don't like junior football at all. I couldn't give any fucks about it and if it ceased to exist as an entity tomorrow I'd be a happy man because it's archaic bollocks from top to bottom. The fact that I watch it is nothing to do with the name. I watch Linlithgow Rose, not junior football. I watch football rather than junior football. I love these people - like you - who tell us that if they wanted to go and watch a different grade they'd go and watch Ayr or Kilmarnock. I suggest then that your loyalty to the cause of Beith is built on flimsy foundations if you're suggesting that you wouldn't watch them in a non junior environment. Yes 41 years of watching one club shows no loyalty at all. So are clubs whose only ambition is to draw Rangers or Celtic away in the cup so they can survive for 2 years to be congratulated for their ambition? Give me challenging for trophies and value for money over rip off prices anyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Yes 41 years of watching one club shows no loyalty at all. So are clubs whose only ambition is to draw Rangers or Celtic away in the cup so they can survive for 2 years to be congratulated for their ambition? Give me challenging for trophies and value for money over rip off prices anyday. Why are those values different if you're in a pyramid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I can't believe Arbroath fans are trolling the Junior forum anyway!! I mind we drew with Celtic and how good that felt taking something off such a good team, must have been what it felt like for Irvine Meadow fans the night they managed to scrape a 1-0 off us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pccabe Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Why are those values different if you're in a pyramid? As then we would be involved in the same system where the only dream is reaching the 4th rnd of the Scottish and drawing an Old Firm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pccabe Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I mind we drew with Celtic and how good that felt taking something off such a good team, must have been what it felt like for Irvine Meadow fans the night they managed to scrape a 1-0 off us Funny as anybody that knows anything about football didn't find it a shock you lost to Meadow. I certainly said it would happen on our forum. You're flukey draw with Celtic was certainly more of a shock than you losing to Meadow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 As then we would be involved in the same system where the only dream is reaching the 4th rnd of the Scottish and drawing an Old Firm.Rubbish. What you're looking at now is the impact of having had a closed shop in the SPFL for generations. One where a club had to die before there was change. In a functioning pyramid teams would not have the luxury of sitting on their thumb waiting for some bonus money from a cup tie. The only thing I'd concede is that the current model is shite. I wrote an article on this last season - the current approach rewards failure ahead of success. But it's a start. If you can get all excited by Beith's adventures in the West top flight - even though winning the thing carries scant reward and leaves you in exactly the same set up the following season, why would you think that's better than what Arbroath fans experience when they've got local derbies against Brechin or the elation that comes with securing promotion and watching your team test itself in a tougher environment. What are the vast majority of junior teams playing for? Huge numbers of them will never win a bauble so if your argument is based on capability to win stuff, it's a very narrow view to take and totally unrepresentative of how most teams and their supporters experience life in football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pccabe Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Rubbish. What you're looking at now is the impact of having had a closed shop in the SPFL for generations. One where a club had to die before there was change. In a functioning pyramid teams would not have the luxury of sitting on their thumb waiting for some bonus money from a cup tie. The only thing I'd concede is that the current model is shite. I wrote an article on this last season - the current approach rewards failure ahead of success. But it's a start. If you can get all excited by Beith's adventures in the West top flight - even though winning the thing carries scant reward and leaves you in exactly the same set up the following season, why would you think that's better than what Arbroath fans experience when they've got local derbies against Brechin or the elation that comes with securing promotion and watching your team test itself in a tougher environment. What are the vast majority of junior teams playing for? Huge numbers of them will never win a bauble so if your argument is based on capability to win stuff, it's a very narrow view to take and totally unrepresentative of how most teams and their supporters experience life in football. I would say there is more scope to improve in Junior football. Where were Hurlford 10 years ago? Junior fluctuations can be bigger with teams fortunes changing. Only teams like yourself and Talbot tend to stay at the top end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcastle broon Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Where were Hurlford 10 years ago? What sort of crowds do Hurlford get ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I would say there is more scope to improve in Junior football. Where were Hurlford 10 years ago? Junior fluctuations can be bigger with teams fortunes changing. Only teams like yourself and Talbot tend to stay at the top end. I disagree. Hurlford are in a different place from 10 years ago because they are suddenly able to pay wages which were a pipedream in 2005. Man City have improved beyond all recognition in the same period. Bathgate have gone in the other direction because 10 years ago they had access to cash that isn't there now. Hurlford haven't just moved through the leagues on the basis of plucky players and community engagement. Teams come and go in no different a manner to the professional leagues. Since the Millennium, Dunfermline, St Mirren, Hibs, Hearts, Rangers, Livingston, Partick, Dundee, Gretna, ICT,Falkirk and Hamilton have all been relegated from the top flight whilst ICT, Ross County, Hamilton, Gretna, Dundee, Falkirk, St Johnstone, Dunfermline, Partick and Hearts have been promoted into it. There is plenty of fluidity and a lot more to play for than just drawing the OF. That seems to me to be a rather lazy and jaundiced view of the game at higher levels. If you followed your line, I'd struggle to understand why any football club exists outside of Barcelona and Real Madrid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcastle broon Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 There is nothing attractive for Juniors sides in playing Cumbernauld Colts and the like. Why would we want to play against Uni clubs and clubs that didn't exsist 5 years ago instead of proper clubs like Meadow and Talbot?Clubs like BSC play in Junior grounds in front of 50 fans.You must really hate Gartcairn then eh...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 You must really hate Gartcairn then eh...... But ... but ... ra joonyurs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Harry Beaver will be on here shortly to tell you that Rangers were hounded out the league and not as you put it relegated Well that's a view of course. "Relegated" isn't quite right for me either. "Ceased to exist" would be better terminology. But let's not split hairs here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pccabe Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 You must really hate Gartcairn then eh...... Never played them and no I don't hate anybody. I just don't think the LL set up is adequate and has teams that shouldn't be in a pyramid set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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