Andy Murray Latest and General Tennis Chat

[port-ton]

No one cares about International Tennis, if they did then the Braehead Arena wouldn't have been half empty because Murray wasn't playing. As a fan either you support your country or you dont. You don't choose to support it but only if Andy Murray shows up. The Davis Cup should be held with contempt for the useless timewasting activity it is by players and fans alike.

[H_B]

No one cares about International Tennis, if they did then the Braehead Arena wouldn't have been half empty because Murray wasn't playing.

It wasn't half empty on either Friday or Saturday.

As a fan either you support your country or you dont.

Uh huh. And? where have I suggested differently?

You don't choose to support it but only if Andy Murray shows up.

Uh huh. And? where have I suggested differently?

The Davis Cup should be held with contempt for the useless timewasting activity it is by players and fans alike.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Ask the Croatians who won the Davis Cup or the Spanish or Argentinians whether it's an irrelevance to them.

Edited March 19, 2009 by H_B

[port-ton]

It wasn't half empty on either Friday or Saturday.

Uh huh. And? where have I suggested differently?

Uh huh. And? where have I suggested differently?

You have no idea what you are talking about. Ask the Croatians who won the Davis Cup or the Spanish or Argentinians whether it's an irrelevance to them.

You suggest that Andy Murray should take it seriously when no one in this country takes it seriously, not even the fans. They went along to see Andy Murray, not to support their country. It was basically an Andy Murray exhibition match and without him no one was interested. If i was Andy Murray and had so much as a cold then i'd pull out of the davis cup.

Your point is irrelevant as most of the countries who think the Davis Cup is worthwhile also think the Eurovision Song Contest is a serious competition.

[RedWeb]

Your point is irrelevant as most of the countries who think the Davis Cup is worthwhile also think the Eurovision Song Contest is a serious competition.

[H_B]

You suggest that Andy Murray should take it seriously when no one in this country takes it seriously, not even the fans.

Your basis for this being what exactly?

They went along to see Andy Murray, not to support their country.

In Scotland, perhaps. Which is but one small element of Great Britain. The Davis Cup isn't always at Braehead.

It was basically an Andy Murray exhibition match and without him no one was interested.

Again, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Your point is irrelevant as most of the countries who think the Davis Cup is worthwhile also think the Eurovision Song Contest is a serious competition.

See point above.

[port-ton]

Your basis for this being what exactly?

In Scotland, perhaps. Which is but one small element of Great Britain. The Davis Cup isn't always at Braehead.

Again, you have no idea what you are talking about.

See point above.

Thats right, i have no idea what im talking about because i don't agree with you. How about this....maybe for once you're not actually correct?

My basis for this is crowd sizes compared to when Andy Murray plays and when Andy Murray doesn't play.

Andy Murray is hardly the first top tennis player to pull out of the Davis Cup and he sure won't be the last.

But feel free to back up your opinion that the Davis Cup is massive in Britain and we as a country all feel completely let down by Murray with stats and facts please, rather than passing your opinion off as fact and anyone else doesn't know what they're talking about.

Stick to having a go at football managers who inevitabely prove you wrong, its the only thing you're good at. Surely the ammount of times you've been wrong about things in the past should start to hit home at least once. You will never be right until you admit you're wrong.

Edited March 19, 2009 by port-ton

[xbl]

Thats right, i have no idea what im talking about because i don't agree with you. How about this....maybe for once you're not actually correct?

Rubbish! Can't see that happening!

[H_B]

Thats right, i have no idea what im talking about because i don't agree with you. How about this....maybe for once you're not actually correct?

You have no idea what you are talking about because you are making incorrect statements about something you know nothing about. Namely how important the Davis cup is to British tennis fans.

My basis for this is crowd sizes compared to when Andy Murray plays and when Andy Murray doesn't play.

What?

Crowd sizes where? He's only played one competitive match in Scotland, which was the doubles the last time it went to Braehead. What two crowds are you comparing?

Andy Murray is hardly the first top tennis player to pull out of the Davis Cup and he sure won't be the last.

So what? Doesn't mean it's acceptable. It started with Andre agassi and Pete Sampras. Federer plays in half the Swiss matches. If I was Swiss that would piss me off too.

But feel free to back up your opinion that the Davis Cup is massive in Britain

In the British tennis community it is, yes. Tennis in general isn't massive in Britain.

and we as a country all feel completely let down by Murray with stats and facts please, rather than passing your opinion off as fact and anyone else doesn't know what they're talking about.

I'm not seeking to talk for anyone else. I'm saying I think it is disgusting someone who benefitted from so much LTA funding through the years has such a pathetic attitude towards representing his country.

I don't give a flying whether you agree with this or not.

Surely the ammount of times you've been wrong about things in the past should start to hit home at least once.

I have been right far more than I've been wrong. I can provide numerous examples of beign proven utterly correct. I have never claimed to be infallible.

[H_B]

I notice no one has yet to answer whether they find it acceptable that football players who pull out of national squads on a Wednesday and play on a Saturday for their club side are acceptable.

Ultimately, I accept the view that representing your country means nothing to a lot of people, which is fine. As long as you are consistent.

I have a feeling though that a lot of the reason Murray gets an easy ride from Scots is because he represents GB at tennis, not Scotland itself.

[port-ton]

I notice no one has yet to answer whether they find it acceptable that football players who pull out of national squads on a Wednesday and play on a Saturday for their club side are acceptable.

Ultimately, I accept the view that representing your country means nothing to a lot of people, which is fine. As long as you are consistent.

I have a feeling though that a lot of the reason Murray gets an easy ride from Scots is because he represents GB at tennis, not Scotland itself.

Do you care if someone pulls out of playing Cricket for Scotland? or tiddlywinks? where was the outrage when Jock Mcracken pulled out of the World Mini Golf Championships because he had a blister on his toe?

[H_B]

So answer the question. Does it bother you when footballers withdraw from the national squad, before playing for their club at the weekend?

I don't give a toss about any of these sports. I do care about tennis. I'd have thought that was obvious.

[port-ton]

So answer the question. Does it bother you when footballers withdraw from the national squad, before playing for their club at the weekend?

I don't give a toss about any of these sports. I do care about tennis. I'd have thought that was obvious.

I don't particularly care if players pull out injured and then play at the weekend ( even though im pretty sure thats against FIFA/UEFA rules). If someone isn't commited to showing up then they're not commited on the pitch, so we don't need them. I wouldn't spend most of my time bitching about it though.

Andy Murray can do what he wants, and if he doesn't want to travel around the world getting his teams arse handed to them every time by inferior nations then so be it. Tennis is an induvidual sport, so every single match he plays is for his country and his countries fans and i'd much rather have him fully fit and winning tournaments than playing in the Davis Cup with team-mates im probably better than.

[H_B]

I don't particularly care if players pull out injured and then play at the weekend ( even though im pretty sure thats against FIFA/UEFA rules).

That's fine then. as I say, I am happy with that point of view, as long as it is consistent.

If someone isn't commited to showing up then they're not commited on the pitch, so we don't need them.

Again, fine. But their commitment can absolutely be questioned and commented upon.

I wouldn't spend most of my time bitching about it though.

You are aware this is a message board. And a thread about Andy Murray.

Andy Murray can do what he wants,

Who said he couldn't? So can Kris Boyd, or aiden McGeady.

and if he doesn't want to travel around the world getting his teams arse handed to them every time by inferior nations then so be it.

Indeed. But British tennis fans are perfectly entitled to take whatever view on him they like from this attitude.

Tennis is an induvidual sport, so every single match he plays is for his country

No it isn't. It's for himself. The only matches which reflect on Britain are Davis Cup games. Because that's the nature of country v country competition.

and his countries fans and i'd much rather have him fully fit and winning tournaments than playing in the Davis Cup with team-mates im probably better than.

I bet you've never played tennis ever. Good to know you feel qualified to talk about what "his country"'s fans want though. I'm sure there are some who feel the way you do. there are others who don't.

[Diamonds are Forever]

So answer the question. Does it bother you when footballers withdraw from the national squad, before playing for their club at the weekend?

If it is a midweek friendly I have absolutely no problem with them withdrawing, I don't think you should risk an injury in a pointless game. Similar to Murray, he obviously doesn't really care about the Davis Cup, and IMO has every right not to. If we had somehow beaten Ukraine, we would have just got stronger opposition in the next match and got humped. Until we get another capable player in the team then I don't think you can blame Murray for withdrawing. Although I have to say in this instance I don't think he did fake an illness/injury, it was a match in Scotland which would have allowed him to go home a for a few days, and he would have won his 2 matches easily enough. I see no reason why he would bother faking illness. It is not like the last time where he had to travel to Argentina.

[H_B]

If it is a midweek friendly I have absolutely no problem with them withdrawing, I don't think you should risk an injury in a pointless game.

This was far from a pointless tie though. It was vital.

Similar to Murray, he obviously doesn't really care about the Davis Cup,

I know, that's the point. I'm sure a number of players dont care about International football much either. That's their prerogative.

Until we get another capable player in the team then I don't think you can blame Murray for withdrawing.

So Alan Hutton can say "Until Kenny Miller is replaced with a striker who can score, I'm out of here"?

Although I have to say in this instance I don't think he did fake an illness/injury, it was a match in Scotland which would have allowed him to go home a for a few days,

He doesn't live in Scotland. He lives in London.

Whether he was really unable to play or not is open to debate. The only facts are that he lied last year, and was outed by his brother and that he is fit to play this week. What condition he was in DC weekend, is open to speculation.

[H_B]

The reason why it was vital, and indeed the reason why Henman and Rusedski didnt do better as a pairing, is because Britian took years to get out of the Euro Africa zone, through the levels and back to the main ties. Years where we had a World Group level pairing, but weren't anywhere near the world Group.

We will eventually have a second singles player ranked in the top 100 who can win DC matches in the World Group. But when he comes along, it might take wasted years, even with him and Murray, to reach that level again.

Edited March 19, 2009 by H_B

[Diamonds are Forever]

So Alan Hutton can say "Until Kenny Miller is replaced with a striker who can score, I'm out of here"?

He doesn't live in Scotland. He lives in London.

So you don't think he would like to come back to Scotland then ?

And that example you give is completely irrelevant. Mainly because Alan Hutton is not exceptionally better than any other player we have. And also because in football teams can, and regularly do, beat teams who have far superior players (Scotland do it more than anyone else), this hardly ever happens in Tennis. In Tennis you can't rely on formations or set-pieces to fluke you a win, you need players with skill, other than Murray we do not have any. As I said I don't think he did fake injury, but I wouldn't blame if he did. He will do far more for British tennis by winning a Grand Slam - resulting in thousands of youngsters taking up the sport who wouldn't otherwise, than by playing Davis Cup. If not playing Davis Cup helps him acheive that then I don't see how anyone can criticise him.

British tennis would be non existant if it wasn't for Murray atm, for that reason the LTA have already recieved enough pay back from Murray for funding him.

Edited March 19, 2009 by Diamonds are Forever

[Gnash]

So by the same token you have no issues with players withdrawing from the national side at football on a Wednesday and turning out for their clubs at the weekend?

That's fine if you don't. I just hope you are consistent.

I don't have a problem with players withdrawing from internationals due to illness and then playing for their club team when their illness has improved.

But anyway, this protracted debate is about you not believing that Murray had an illness. Personally, I'm inclined to believe him as it wouldn't make any sense to withdraw from the previous tournament, even if he's determined not to play in the Davis Cup (which is also up for debate). Ultimately none of us really know about his state of health, and what happened prior to the tie in Argentina doesn't help us with that.

[H_B]

So you don't think he would like to come back to Scotland then ?

I have no idea. Do you?

And that example you give is completely irrelevant. Mainly because Alan Hutton is not exceptionally better than any other player we have.

Id argue that he has been. But is that the point anyway? Are you allowed to say "f**k it" only if yuo are much better than your fellow team mates?

And also because in football teams can, and regularly do, beat teams who have far superior players (Scotland do it more than anyone else), this hardly ever happens in Tennis.

so what? there is also a lot more you can do to achieve wins in the Davis Cup as a sole player than in a football match. He could have played 3 matches for example. Win them all and the job is done.

Hutton was sublime against Italy at Hampden. We lost, as the rest of the team wasnt at his level.

As I said I don't think he did fake injury, but I wouldn't blame if he did.

You have no idea whether he did or not. Neither do I.

what is fact is that he feigned injury last year, and lied about it. So has previous for it. And is fine to play this week. Circumstantial evidence and prior convictions. supportive, but not conclusive evidence.

He will do far more for British tennis by winning a Grand Slam - resulting in thousands of youngsters taking up the sport who wouldn't otherwise,

I wasn't aware you couldn't do both. Rafa Nadal has.

If not playing Davis Cup helps him acheive that then I don't see how anyone can criticise him.

It's quite easy. He bloused out of representing his country in the only national tennis competition.

British tennis would be non existant if it wasn't for Murray atm, for that reason the LTA have already recieved anough pay back from Murray for funding him.

Don't agree. Wimbledon is British tennis. That is sold out regardless of whether Britain have a top player or not.

Virtually all of the LTA's money comes from Wimbledon, and the rights surrounding it. you could argue the Aegon deal was down to Murray - that is debateable, but possible.

[H_B]

I don't have a problem with players withdrawing from internationals due to illness and then playing for their club team when their illness has improved.

Not the question I asked. That assumes their illness was sufficient to prevent them playing internationally. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.

But anyway, this protracted debate is about you not believing that Murray had an illness.

I don't believe him, no. I think he could have played. Andrew Castle hinted as much as well.

Personally, I'm inclined to believe him as it wouldn't make any sense to withdraw from the previous tournament

The previous tournament was 10 days before the Davis Cup game. He may well have been unfit to play then. That doesn't mean he was unfit to play 10 days later.

Ultimately none of us really know about his state of health, and what happened prior to the tie in Argentina doesn't help us with that.

Err, yes it does. It proves only last year he cried off with a made up injury/illness to avoid playing Davis Cup.

It's the boy who cried wolf. Maybe this time he really was unfit to play - who knows? The fact he lied last time, and was caught lying, suggests his injury reports cannot be trusted.