Andy Murray The Greatest and General Tennis Chat

[dogmc]

That's not strictly true - it wasn't a do-or-die match. If it had been 1-1 in the match then Andy may have partnered Jamie in the doubles as he did in each of the other matches, and GB may have won the doubles rather than losing with Murray/Inglot.

It is Team GB in this case. There is an all-Ireland team in Davis Cup tennis, so any Northern Irish players would play for them.

Tbf you think the bbc n the middle class (Ooh look we have fancy dress on....paid for by sponsors) fans were all about inclusivity.....same mob there this week will be telling club secretary to keep those awful chavs away from their bmws in car park n ensuring only members kids get court time....the team gb moniker is part of the 'your fine if your a winner to be with us' **** off if your not....why would team UK not be just as applicable? ? No wonder mcilroy is preferring roi for rio (a UK vip mia! !) Rather than team gb minus ni......

[pantene proV]

Can we just take a moment to call Tim Henman a pussy?

His decision not to go is well documented, and it summed up his career and him as a person.

Even preggers Kim turned up. Even Andy's Gran & Gramps turned up for Christs' sake Tim you gutless, cowering chunt.

You were always posted missing when the medals were handed out anyway and are the epitome of a vacuous LTA chinless wonder

[printer]

Can we just take a moment to call Tim Henman a pussy?

His decision not to go is well documented, and it summed up his career and him as a person.

Even preggers Kim turned up. Even Andy's Gran & Gramps turned up for Christs' sake Tim you gutless, cowering chunt.

You were always posted missing when the medals were handed out anyway and are the epitome of a vacuous LTA chinless wonder

What a pile of shite.

[peasy23]

Andy is quite scathing of the LTA in today's Daily Record, says he was at the National Tennis Centre for some training and the place was deserted. Also said they are all talk and very little action.

[SamuraiJock]

Can we just take a moment to call Tim Henman a pussy?

His decision not to go is well documented, and it summed up his career and him as a person.

Even preggers Kim turned up. Even Andy's Gran & Gramps turned up for Christs' sake Tim you gutless, cowering chunt.

You were always posted missing when the medals were handed out anyway and are the epitome of a vacuous LTA chinless wonder

Are you aware that Henman had planned the trip with his family? In the same situation you'd happily take your kids over to watch a game of tennis?

[Virtual Insanity]

Henman's entitled to do whatever the f**k he wants but it was pretty irresponsible for him to go public with his own personal decision, and served no purpose.

As if he needed to do anything else, Murray continues to cement his legend status by saying he refuses to talk to the LTA about development as it's a waste of his time. Some guy.

[pantene proV]

Are you aware that Henman had planned the trip with his family? In the same situation you'd happily take your kids over to watch a game of tennis?

Ridiculous. Plenty folk traveled with their families. Families who realise you DON'T change your lifestyle because of terrorism threats

There was nothing to stop him going on his own. He should have showed greater support for the team but only showed he has no backbone. Who knew!

[printer]

Ridiculous. Plenty folk traveled with their families. Families who realise you DON'T change your lifestyle because of terrorism threats

There was nothing to stop him going on his own. He should have showed greater support for the team but only showed he has no backbone. Who knew!

So you knew before this incident that Henman had no backbone.

What specific evidence led you to that view?

[sparky88]

Are you aware that Henman had planned the trip with his family? In the same situation you'd happily take your kids over to watch a game of tennis?

Anyone that doesn't go anywhere because of nasty terrorists but drives or walks on a pavement at the side of a road is a simpleton.

[ScotSquid]

Yep.. Absolutely gutless from Henman.

What was to stop him leaving his daughters at home and going himself.

Totally embarrassing.

[Mr Bairn]

Sparky and ScotSquid proving themselves as our resident holearses today

[LincolnHearts]

I can honestly see Andy, Jamie and Judy becoming the future of British tennis development once the lads have hung the rackets up and the LTA are told to gtf..

I really hope there's a major or two left in Andy though. July 7 2013 and the Olympic win at Wimbledon were mega sporting moments....absolutely staggering achievements.

[pantene proV]

So you knew before this incident that Henman had no backbone.

What specific evidence led you to that view?

His folding like a cheap suit at Wimbledon against Goran. No backbone

[Loki]

I wouldn't call Henman a pussy for not going. It's his choice. Fair play to everyone that did go, but I can certainly understand why anyone might not go.

To say he folded like a cheap suit is incredibly harsh. Ivanisevic folded in the third set and was on the brink of being knocked out, but the rain came to save him. All Henman's momentum was lost, and the stop start nature of the rest of the match was always going to favour the better player Ivanisevic.

Henman was a feel player. He needed to play a few games in a match before he could start playing his best. If that match could have came to a conclusion on the Friday, Henman would have won and been into the final. He showed a lot of "backbone" in the win against Federer in the QF.

As for him being posted missing when the medals were handed out, you do realise he got a medal at the Atlanta Olympics?Henman wasn't a great player, but he was a very good player. 11 titles including one Masters, six Slam semi finals on all three surfaces, and making top four in the world.

Anyway Murray was exemplary again in the Davis Cup the second best season ever recorded in the Davis Cup in the professional era. It certainly eclipses anything his rivals and contemporaries have done in the competition. Bravo. A sublime match point too. Hopefully this will give him the extra % needed to finally win the Australian Open.

[pantene proV]

I wouldn't call Henman a pussy for not going. It's his choice. Fair play to everyone that did go, but I can certainly understand why anyone might not go.

To say he folded like a cheap suit is incredibly harsh. Ivanisevic folded in the third set and was on the brink of being knocked out, but the rain came to save him. All Henman's momentum was lost, and the stop start nature of the rest of the match was always going to favour the better player Ivanisevic.

Henman was a feel player. He needed to play a few games in a match before he could start playing his best. If that match could have came to a conclusion on the Friday, Henman would have won and been into the final. He showed a lot of "backbone" in the win against Federer in the QF.

As for him being posted missing when the medals were handed out, you do realise he got a medal at the Atlanta Olympics?Henman wasn't a great player, but he was a very good player. 11 titles including one Masters, six Slam semi finals on all three surfaces, and making top four in the world.

Anyway Murray was exemplary again in the Davis Cup the second best season ever recorded in the Davis Cup in the professional era. It certainly eclipses anything his rivals and contemporaries have done in the competition. Bravo. A sublime match point too. Hopefully this will give him the extra % needed to finally win the Australian Open.

Loki, I respect your views more than anyone when it comes to tennis. No doubt.

A few points though;

I don't think it's harsh to call him out for folding at all. 1 set away when the rain fell if memory serves right? Even the tiebreaker 4th was lost when play resumed on Saturday. Oh it was the nasty weather who robbed him, not his fault, he needs a few games to settle in. Well he took it to a tiebreak and choked. Had another chance on the Sunday and cracked. That match was his 8th 5 set loss out of 9 incidentally

Everything was going for him that year, from being given a hugely generous seeding compared to his WR to Sampras being ousted by Fed

Henman was under loads of pressure no doubt but he has been cut far too much slack when looking at his career. There was a 3 maybe 4 year window for players to fill their boots from the outgoing Sampras & Agassi to the incoming Federer and STILL Henman couldn't do it. Considering he himself stated he was a late developer - and one look at his career stats would back this - these years (roughly 00-03) fell on his best.

Never even won a ranking tournament on grass. Was a set up in 2 Queens finals and lost those btw

Yes I know he got a medal in 1996 (not gold obv) and he had some good wins but this is my point - people are cutting him slack because it's Tim. His game WAS good enough to claim a slam in those years where Hewitt was the best of a decent but not worldy bunch of players. He COULD have beaten Goran but ultimately it was his own fragile temperament that stopped him

My equating his almost-but-not-quite playing career with his almost-but-not-quite getting on a plane to Belgium still stands

Edited December 2, 2015 by pantene proV

[Loki]

Loki, I respect your views more than anyone when it comes to tennis. No doubt.

A few points though;

I don't think it's harsh to call him out for folding at all. 1 set away when the rain fell if memory serves right? Even the tiebreaker 4th was lost when play resumed on Saturday. Oh it was the nasty weather who robbed him, not his fault, he needs a few games to settle in. Well he took it to a tiebreak and choked. Had another chance on the Sunday and cracked. That match was his 8th 5 set loss out of 9 incidentally

Everything was going for him that year, from being given a hugely generous seeding compared to his WR to Sampras being ousted by Fed

Henman was under loads of pressure no doubt but he has been cut far too much slack when looking at his career. There was a 3 maybe 4 year window for players to fill their boots from the outgoing Sampras & Agassi to the incoming Federer and STILL Henman couldn't do it. Considering he himself stated he was a late developer - and one look at his career stats would back this - these years (roughly 00-03) fell on his best.

Never even won a ranking tournament on grass. Was a set up in 2 Queens finals and lost those btw

Yes I know he got a medal in 1996 (not gold obv) and he had some good wins but this is my point - people are cutting him slack because it's Tim. His game WAS good enough to claim a slam in those years where Hewitt was the best of a decent but not worldy bunch of players. He COULD have beaten Goran but ultimately it was his own fragile temperament that stopped him

My equating his almost-but-not-quite playing career with his almost-but-not-quite getting on a plane to Belgium still stands

And who were the players he lost to at Queens? Sampras and Hewitt. Players infinitely better than him. Just because you have won a set, doesn't mean if you lose you bottled it. Mannarino must be a total bottler as he was two sets up against Andy Murray at Flushing Meadows and lost.

He wasn't good enough to win a slam. In the era you talk about 2000-2003 name a Slam winner he was better than? Albert Costa is the only one. Costa beat three superb clay courters (Kuerten, Coretja and Ferrero) on the way to that title.

It was not his eighth five set loss out of nine. Of the top of my head he beat Kafelnikov, Novak, Martin and Courier in fifth sets at Wimbledon before his match with Ivanisevic. I will look up his fifth set record later on and post it here. But you're wrong there.

Equating his career with his stance of not travelling to Belgium does not stand.

[Loki]

1996 Wimbledon R128: Tim Henman def. Yevgeny Kafelnikov (7-6, 6-3, 6-7, 4-6, 7-5)
1997 French Open R128: Olivier Delaitre def. Tim Henman (6-2, 2-6, 1-6, 6-2, 6-4)
1997 Wimbledon R32: Tim Henman def. Paul Haarhuis (6-7, 6-3, 6-2, 4-6, 14-12)
1997 Davis Cup: Tim Henman def. Andrei Rybalko (3-6, 6-4, 6-3, 4-6, 6-4)
1998 Australian Open R128: Jerome Golmard def. Tim Henman (6-3, 6-7, 6-2, 3-6, 11-9)
1998 Davis Cup: Tim Henman def. Andrei Medvedev (6-2, 6-7, 6-4, 1-6, 6-1)
1998 Wimbledon R128: Tim Henman def. Jiri Novak (7-6, 7-5, 5-7, 4-6, 6-2)
1999 Australian Open R64: Tim Henman def. Sandon Stolle (4-6, 7-5, 4-6, 6-1, 6-4)
1999 Davis Cup 1R: Jim Courier def. Tim Henman (7-6, 2-6, 7-6, 6-7, 7-5)
1999 French Open R128: Tim Henman def. Karim Alami (6-4, 3-6, 4-6, 6-3, 6-4)
1999 French Open R32: Alberto Berasategui def. Tim Henman (4-6, 4-6, 6-4, 7-5, 6-4)
1999 Wimbledon R16: Tim Henman def. Jim Courier (4-6, 7-5, 7-5, 6-7, 9-7)
1999 Basel F: Karol Kucera def. Tim Henman (6-4, 7-6, 4-6, 4-6, 7-6)
2000 Australian Open R16: Chris Woodruff def. Tim Henman (7-5, 1-6, 6-4, 3-6, 7-5)
2000 Davis Cup 1R: Tim Henman def. Slava Dosedel (6-7, 5-7, 6-1, 7-5, 6-3)
2000 French Open R32: Fernando Vicente def. Tim Henman (7-5, 4-6, 6-4, 4-6, 6-3)
2000 Wimbledon R16: Mark Philippoussis def. Tim Henman (6-1, 5-7, 6-7, 6-3, 6-4)
2000 US Open R32: Richard Krajicek def. Tim Henman (6-4, 3-6, 4-6, 7-5, 7-5)
2001 French Open R32: Guillermo Canas def. Tim Henman (4-6, 6-4, 6-4, 3-6, 7-5)
2001 Wimbledon R16: Tim Henman def. Todd Martin (6-7, 7-6, 4-6, 6-3, 6-2)
2001 Wimbledon SF: Goran Ivanisevic def. Tim Henman (7-5, 6-7, 0-6, 7-6, 6-3)
2001 US Open R128: Tim Henman def. Jan Vacek (6-3, 6-2, 6-7, 3-6, 6-3)
2001 US Open R32: Xavier Malisse def. Tim Henman (6-7, 6-3, 7-5, 4-6, 6-4)
2002 Wimbledon R16: Tim Henman def. Michel Kratochvil (7-6, 6-7, 4-6, 6-3, 6-2)
2004 Australian Open R32: Guillermo Canas def. Tim Henman (6-7, 5-7, 7-6, 7-5, 9-7)
2004 French Open R128: Tim Henman def. Cyril Saulnier (4-6, 4-6, 7-6, 6-4, 6-3)
2004 French Open R16: Tim Henman def. Michael Llodra (6-7, 4-6, 6-4, 6-3, 9-7)
2004 US Open R128: Tim Henman def. Ivo Karlovic (7-6, 6-7, 4-6, 6-4, 6-4)
2004 US Open R32: Tim Henman def. Michal Tabara (4-6, 6-3, 5-7, 6-4, 6-3)
2004 US Open R16: Tim Henman def. Nicolas Kiefer (6-7, 6-3, 6-1, 6-7, 3-0 ret.)
2005 Wimbledon R128: Tim Henman def. Jarkko Nieminen (3-6, 6-7, 6-4, 7-5, 6-2)
2005 Wimbledon R64: Dmitry Tursunov def. Tim Henman (3-6, 6-2, 3-6, 6-3, 8-6)
2006 Wimbledon R128: Tim Henman def. Robin Soderling (6-7, 6-3, 6-2, 1-6, 6-3)
2007 Wimbledon R128: Tim Henman def. Carlos Moya (6-3, 1-6, 5-7, 6-2, 13-11)
2007 Wimbledon R64: Feliciano Lopez def. Tim Henman (7-6, 7-6, 3-6, 2-6, 6-1)

He finished 20-15 in his career in five set matches. His loss to Ivanisevic was not the eighth loss out of nine.

[DensParkNumber1]

Some of the players he lost to though , jesus

[pantene proV]

And who were the players he lost to at Queens? Sampras and Hewitt. Players infinitely better than him. Just because you have won a set, doesn't mean if you lose you bottled it. Mannarino must be a total bottler as he was two sets up against Andy Murray at Flushing Meadows and lost.

He wasn't good enough to win a slam. In the era you talk about 2000-2003 name a Slam winner he was better than? Albert Costa is the only one. Costa beat three superb clay courters (Kuerten, Coretja and Ferrero) on the way to that title.

It was not his eighth five set loss out of nine. Of the top of my head he beat Kafelnikov, Novak, Martin and Courier in fifth sets at Wimbledon before his match with Ivanisevic. I will look up his fifth set record later on and post it here. But you're wrong there.

Equating his career with his stance of not travelling to Belgium does not stand.

I'm just saying he was set up on his favoured surface, yes against better players, but his talent on grass could have seen him win 1 more set.

If Goran, Thomas Johansson, Costa & Gaston gaudio could win then Tim could have too. No worse a player than them

I forgot about the Davis Cup tie, genuine mistake, but your stats do show his bad form in 5 setters around that time. His Indian summer in 2004 helped turn that round though.

Edited December 2, 2015 by pantene proV

[printer]

His folding like a cheap suit at Wimbledon against Goran. No backbone

You are clearly an idiot and not worth debating with.