Hertha/BJFC1938 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Yeah I know, was just wanting him to clarify his ridiculous statement. I couldn't work it out myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowcard Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Not at that age they shouldn't , you go with 10 players that you think have got potential and run with them and try and make them better that's the job of a coach , don't 4 of 5 games into the season suddenly change your mind and move them on , it's a coaches job at that age to improve the players regardless of ability level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan of the juniors Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Not at that age they shouldn't , you go with 10 players that you think have got potential and run with them and try and make them better that's the job of a coach , don't 4 of 5 games into the season suddenly change your mind and move them on , it's a coaches job at that age to improve the players regardless of ability level First it was a fact & now it's they shouldn't? Played in teams myself where we started off with x amount of players then a couple better players came along & the lads in their positions got gently nudged to the side It's called selection process No coach worth their salt is gonna play boys in their team if better ones become available FACT !!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowcard Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 So dump them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan of the juniors Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 So dump them You stated earlier that they don't get dumped Make up yer mind lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hertha/BJFC1938 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 First it was a fact & now it's they shouldn't? Played in teams myself where we started off with x amount of players then a couple better players came along & the lads in their positions got gently nudged to the side It's called selection process No coach worth their salt is gonna play boys in their team if better ones become available FACT !!!!! I've spoke to lots of guys who coach at this level and a good few have stopped coaching at that level due to the high turn over in players , lots tell me that some parents were basically using the guy and his club as a cheap " babysitting / after school nursery service " Parents had to work beyond school hours so they would rather pay the coach only a few quid to look after their kids for a few hours than pay a proper carer service which was far dearer, I got told it led to lots of frustration for the coaches as the kids simply didn't want to be there and it was basically a waste of everyone's time. I can't imagine many clubs at that level going with the same ten all Season no matter how much you want to put FACT at the end of a sentence . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrbluebrazil Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Ultimately the Pro Youth pathway is to get the best player/s we all know that out of 1000kids you maybe get 1 possibly more who will make it? Let's set a scenario a young player playing with the local boys club team on Saturday morning? He is talented and his father is asked(tapped) dependant on opinion by a better boys club team to play with them? The boy moves on? He doesn't like it there because his pals aren't there? His form dips and he finds himself out the team and then out of favour end of season he is released!!!! No different to the current system really is it?? I know I was that player? Now or until recently I was a pro youth coach! Granted not with the bigger clubs but with a very good academy at AYR UTD their aim? Nurture and develop talent to the best of their ability with the aim of producing a talent line to the first team? That's Fact? Coaching standard is very good and I have had many boys club coaches thank me for improving their boy! That's Fact! I will be honest though I do not like the end of season cull and is the reason I gave up! As big as I am I really don't have the personality to tell a 13yr old he isn't good enough after spending a year coaching him? I agree with many of valemans points though but what do we have to do to improve the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larky55 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 How many Professional players has the system produced? How long has the been running? Was Steve Mallen's son a product of the system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrbluebrazil Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 At Ayr the players that have come through their system include Robbie Crawford,Alan Forrest in their first team? Mark Shankland is also a product! Maybe a different manager would have put hi in earlier and might not have let him slip through his fingers(shankers is an undoubted talent!!) I also spent some time at Cowdenbeath before Ayr and currently they have Lewis Milne,Liam Callaghan, Kyle Miller, Declan Hughes,Dean Brett all playing in the first team from their pro youth?? Stevie Mallen son I never saw?? I still believe it works at club level at national level I think something should be done to improve yet even further.. Still though football is an opinions based game and also we all know still cliques are prevalent.. I saw the difference between pro youth and juniors in my short time in juniors and it is vast!!! The difference being the juniors need to win and will do anything (by that I mean long ball etc) to win where as pro youth it is all about the football development until you get to 17s-20s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geo87 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 How many Professional players has the system produced? How long has the been running? Was Steve Mallen's son a product of the system? Apparently Stevie Mallan has been on St Mirrens books since he was 5! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Apparently Stevie Mallan has been on St Mirrens books since he was 5! Indeed he has been. About half of our first team squad have came through our pro youth system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 We should just start giving hunners of footballs to the folk that live in the schemes, problem solved over night IMO. I may or may not be Jim McInally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamo8 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Are any one of yous saying if your kid got asked in to pro youth you would say no, Ma sons been in since he was 8 an he's improved big time, Cmon the East Kilbride Dynamo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monthelie' Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Indeed he has been. About half of our first team squad have came through our pro youth system. It's just a pity Gilmour & Co will let him go for buttons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larky55 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Apparently Stevie Mallan has been on St Mirrens books since he was 5! Thanks, g87. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 How many Professional players has the system produced? How long has the been running? Was Steve Mallen's son a product of the system? In the summer the following players left us: Kevin Holt to Dundee Gavin Reilly to Hearts Ian McShane to Ross County Danny Carmichael to Hibernian They all came through our Club Academy Youth set up (which in our case starts at u13's though it may have had u12's at times in the past, not certain). Kevin Holt had been with us since he was 11. Our players don't pay to play or train (they do contribute to the cost of their training kit but then so does my 5 year old at his local boys club). Nor do we get tens of thousands to run the system although that's partly because we only run three teams so have one of the smaller set ups. Our coaches are all volunteers. Our current first team squad includes Jim Atkinson, Scott Hooper and Aidan Smith who came through our own Pro Youth system (+ Dean Brotherston who did too but has yet to actually play for the first team though he's been allocated a squad number). Most of the rest of our first team pool have come through somebody's pro youth system. It's fairly inevitable really. It's pretty unusual to come by another route to full time football if you are under circa 26. Pro Youth came in the summer of 2005 I believe. Robbie Thomson came through Celtic's Darren Brownlie came through Motherwell's Dale Hilson came through Dundee United's Kyle Hutton came through Rangers. Kyle Jacobs came through Livingston's (after a brief spell at Rangers) Lewis Kidd came through both Motherwell and Celtic. Gary Oliver came through Rangers and then Clyde. Shaun Rutherford came through Hearts (and had a short spell with Livingston before turning pro with them). Callum Tapping came through pro youth at both Celtic and Hamilton before moving to Tottenham's Academy Jordan Marshall came through Carlisle United's Academy (as did Jack Dickinson, Jack Brannan, Owen Moxon and one or two other fringe first team u20's). Jake Pickard came through Sunderland's Academy though joined us at 16 (as a pro) Andy Dowie and Iain Russell came through Rangers, Chris Higgins came through Motherwell and both Mark Millar and Ryan Conroy came through at Celtic but all five pre-date Pro Youth. As does Derek Lyle who I think may have been attached to Partick Thistle as a schoolboy, not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c'mon kilsyth Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 I have ran a 2006 age group for 3 years, and I still have about 90% of the original 12 players that started, and we now have 27 players registered with us. Yes, some players have left, but I can honestly say that I have never told a child they are no longer welcome to play. At our age group, we are still playing non competitive development football and therefore there should not be the pressure to win at all costs. I accept that when teams move onto being competitive, the situation may change but our solution was to increase the number of teams we ran to ensure every-one who wanted to play got the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larky55 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Enjoyed reading that SD, I shall follow the lads careers with interest. Thanks very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstarbenhar Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 To summarise : Pro Youth teams travel too much - how about pro youth teams playing in local boys club leagues until under 20's ? Pro youth teams discard too many players who then give up - how about having an organised "downward" pathway to encourage such players not to give up and be lost to the game ? Pro youth teams have too many players - how about limiting the number of players they can sign so decent players aren't missing out on playing ? Pro youth teams do provide pro players but not enough at top level - not sure what the answer is for this ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 To summarise : Pro Youth teams travel too much - how about pro youth teams playing in local boys club leagues until under 20's ? Pro youth teams discard too many players who then give up - how about having an organised "downward" pathway to encourage such players not to give up and be lost to the game ? Pro youth teams have too many players - how about limiting the number of players they can sign so decent players aren't missing out on playing ? Pro youth teams do provide pro players but not enough at top level - not sure what the answer is for this ! I don't know if there might be scope to try to minimise the travel for pro youth sides but in matchday terms at the end of the day, someone has to play the Highland sides and someone has to play Annan & QoS. They can't just keep playing themselves all season! As for the argument that parents travel an hour or two either way to take their kids to training, that's their choice. If they don''t want to do it they don't have to. There is a requirement in Club Academy to have a Player Exit Programme whereby effort should be made to find new clubs for players leaving. At Queen of the South we take that seriously, I would like to think other clubs do too. The idea that pro clubs cast players aside without a care is somewhat far from the truth I hope but I don't know what the norm is in the central belt. As we don't start players into Pro Youth until they are about 12 typically, they usually move back to whichever club we got them from if they don't progress. There is already a limit to the number of players a Pro Youth club can sign at each age group. I think the point being made is that there are too many teams actually operating pro youth and doing so over too many age levels. We are unusual in only running three age groups (13's 15's and 17's). Most clubs run 4 - 6 levels. I guess in the central belt that is an awful lot of players going into Club Academy programmes and a lot of boys clubs being decimated I imagine.Incidentally Club Academy only applies from age 12 upwards. If clubs are operating teams below that age (there was reference to Mallan being at St Mirren from age 5) then they are effectively operating a boys club themselves below the u12's. Pro Youth / Club Academy has existed in present form since 2005. Boys who started in it at the younger end of the age groups are still only 20 - 22. Even the oldest who only had a year or so in Club Academy will only be 27. I think it's difficult to draw any massive conclusions about how successful it actually is in bringing players through. Most clubs will have an average squad age above that so most clubs will on average not have that many Club Academy graduates floating around. Inevitably the very top clubs will still look to bring in imports who are better than what they have but I'd think the majority of full time set ups outside the top half dozen or so clubs will be majority Club Academy graduates within the next few years. Even at a lower level the numbers coming through are bound to increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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