redstarbenhar Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I know that there are four 17 year olds who are regular starters for Forth this season. All four are flourishing because they are well coached, they are training and learning from ex-pros and seasoned juniors and, most importantly, every game is a real challenge. All four came from boys club backgrounds playing in tough competitive leagues year in year out. It will be interesting to see if it works out for them. Perhaps Scotland needs to get back to boys club/junior route - pro youth seems like a bit of a cattle market with clubs overstocking with players in the hope that one will be a diamond that they can cash in on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasy23 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I know that there are four 17 year olds who are regular starters for Forth this season. All four are flourishing because they are well coached, they are training and learning from ex-pros and seasoned juniors and, most importantly, every game is a real challenge. All four came from boys club backgrounds playing in tough competitive leagues year in year out. It will be interesting to see if it works out for them. Perhaps Scotland needs to get back to boys club/junior route - pro youth seems like a bit of a cattle market with clubs overstocking with players in the hope that one will be a diamond that they can cash in on. That bit is one of the biggest problems. Boys can be with a senior side for years then come their mid/late teens they are jettisoned. Many of them are so disillusioned that they just stop playing altogether when a lot of them could still make some sort of career in the juniors or lower level seniors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drs Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Remember these wee Senior Clubs claim between £20-40k per year. Stirling Albion I believe however charge their players to play. Are you sure on that? You seem to have a massive chip on your shoulder over Stirling and the Shire, did they piss on your chips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacktonite Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Can't agree more at 18 I signed full time with Falkirk and the first thing Jim,Jeffries done was farm me out for a season at Musselburgh juniors, with about 5 other boys, which in all honesty was the making off me, some of the others couldn't hack it and were soon released. The 2nd season I played premier reserve football every Saturday alongside first team guys coming back from injury and others on the verge of the first team and got to play every week against guys like Andy Walker and Dariouz Dziekanowski at Parkhead and Gary McSweggan and John Spencer at Ibrox that experience was invaluable to me and something young players nowadays just don't get to experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtg1971 Posted November 4, 2015 Author Share Posted November 4, 2015 If I recall, Rossvale BC also said something similar about Pro-Youth 10-ish years ago, and the observations are still valid (valeman?) One of the points from the McLeish (?) report was the example of Dumbarton youth travelling to Elgin to fulfil a fixture - the net result being a long journey and £500 bill. Personally I was involved in running a Youth League, running a Youth setup, and I'm a Youth referee, and also watching the boy. Without bringing my son into it too much, he's 17years old and playing with a Junior Team. He had lots of options - another year at 19s, 21s, amateurs, Lowland, but it was his choice to step up and play Juniors - he's doing fine. He also plays (as long as it doesn't interfere with the Juniors) for his Uni team. I've just returned from Ainslie Park, having watched a cracking Uni game, and the equal, if not better than any Junior game I've seen this season. The SFA does advocate Community Club and Player Pathway, which is why lots of Boys Clubs were trying to find a ladies team/junior team/senior team for a partnership The problem is that it's very difficult to keep all of the bits in place, some clubs get funded, others do it for the love of the game - some succeed - Spartans, Cumbernauld Colts, etc. I believe the Pathway from Child to Adult is the way to go, but it has to be equitable for all. rtg - what happened to your U-19s from last year that folded in the WLAYFC - I'm guessing that was going to be part of your pathway? Scottish Football is just too complicated - the Uni game I watched had players still playing U-19s youth football, some U-21s, some playing Juniors, some playing Lowland league, some EOS. I like the Junior setup - I like the regionalisation, and I like the people running it, but a different time, different place, maybe everything would be better if there was one big single pyramid? They folded mate - a load of them came from airdrie pro youth and when they lost the scottish had no need to keep going - sad i know but that was their thinking. We started this season with 2*u19s teams but lost one due to getting hammered every week. The other is still going, while results arent great the boys are getting decent coaching. One of the main reasons why we started up the juniors was to return to the pathway which worked in my day - i see far too many children <12 being signed up on deals - deals which are worthless i may add which annoys the life out of me - let them be bloody children ffs and play with their mates, if they are that good let them play up a year/two but still train with their mates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Pro - youth is now an industry, there are people making a good living from it. Part of the role is to promote and perpetuate the effectiveness of the scheme. It's primary purpose at senior level is to make money from the parents of kids involved. If they fluke a major sale it's a bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connolly81 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I have to agree there's more people coaching now for a wee earner and development is suffering as the so called coaches wouldn't have got near a club years ago as they have HeeHaw experience to pass on I learned more by playing and training with pros and ex pros and took more on board due to them being there done that. These days its tick the boxes with the largs Mafia and you are a qualified coach which I personally don't like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddfg Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 All that gaining experience is good and well but did you have matching track suits, rain jackets and bags? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valeman Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Are you sure on that? You seem to have a massive chip on your shoulder over Stirling and the Shire, did they piss on your chips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valeman Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Not personally, but I have an issue in that these Clubs have produced little in return for the six figure sum they have received from the SFA. In the same period we have about 12 players who have represented Scotland from 15s to 21s, the same again at the elite schools, 100s at pro youth, at one point 20% of the players at Motherwell were ex Rossvale players, and a few playing senior. I even got SFA to admit that it regarded as a success. This isnt a case we handed them over at 10 years of age, and the senior Club took them in and developed them. Both Kristi Marku and Momo Yaqub left us at 15 to go to Celtic, and represented Scotland over the last couple of years at youth level. So these Senior Clubs get thousands and have had no success, yet Clubs like ourselves and Gartcairn have to scrabble about and raise our money. So it appears you dont get rewarded for success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valeman Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Are you sure on that? Yes. All teams in the development/elite leagues get a pay out from the SFA to run their pro youth. That came directly from the SFA as we work closely with them. Remember Alloa chairman tried to get hold of all of the money set aside for player development a year or so ago. You seem to have a massive chip on your shoulder over Stirling and the Shire, did they piss on your chips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftrightback Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Pro youth is being used by the clubs to line their coffers, they scoop up the required quota to get the full SFA payment, then take all individuality out of the boys with the same robotic coaching picked up at the Largs Mafia school of "how to pass to a cone"! I've watched the licenced coaching at largs over the years, full of ex-players still trying to find a way to get money out of the game at the expense of our youth and junior set ups, Turn up at Largs pose about the town pubs for a few days, clap when someone tells you, " well done son" there's a coaching badge for you, now go and find one of your manager mates and get a wage taking their pro-youth team. One thing I have found is that if you haven't played pro-youth then a lot of junior clubs don't seem interested, maybe they should look around the amateur game there are some excellent boys out there who don't want to go pro-youth and are learning at the sharp end of men's football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connolly81 Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 All that gaining experience is good and well but did you have matching track suits, rain jackets and bags? does that make you a better player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtg1971 Posted November 5, 2015 Author Share Posted November 5, 2015 Pro youth is being used by the clubs to line their coffers, they scoop up the required quota to get the full SFA payment, then take all individuality out of the boys with the same robotic coaching picked up at the Largs Mafia school of "how to pass to a cone"! I've watched the licenced coaching at largs over the years, full of ex-players still trying to find a way to get money out of the game at the expense of our youth and junior set ups, Turn up at Largs pose about the town pubs for a few days, clap when someone tells you, " well done son" there's a coaching badge for you, now go and find one of your manager mates and get a wage taking their pro-youth team. One thing I have found is that if you haven't played pro-youth then a lot of junior clubs don't seem interested, maybe they should look around the amateur game there are some excellent boys out there who don't want to go pro-youth and are learning at the sharp end of men's football. disagree with the largs comments to be honest. Ive been there and done that, got the t-shirt. Has it turned me in to a robot coach - hell no. did i learn shed loads about formational structures and training methodology - damn tootin i did. The license courses only teach you how to drive really, its over to you how you then implement what you have learned - hence the reason why you can simply have shit license coaches and good license coaches - being a pro doesnt make you a good coach - man alive ive seen some and standing at edge of park i think - wtf is he doing! Incidentally the Icelandic govt flooded their country with license coaches (the govt heavily subsidised the cost of these courses to allow the joe bloggs to be able to afford it) - they are doing pretty ok now due to this investment in grass roots coaching (albeit their pro structure is better than ours as they leave the kids until they are over 14 with their grass roots clubs and the kids link with their local team so no poaching from half way across the country). For me pro youth is all about the money - the pro clubs say no the youth setup costs them money even after their big payment from the SFA for having one. Too many pro youth clubs jersey fill to increase their payments and for me far too many have coaches without a license teaching the players. The SFA cannot axe the system altogether as that would publically say their idea has failed and doesnt work and that they have wasted millions of public money for this. However what i am seeing is that their rules are becming increasingly difficult for teams to sustain - in other words death by stealth, leaving the handful of clubs in this country who do it right in situ. As said already - we have had two children "sign" pro youth this week alone - one with motherwell and the other rangers - these children are 8 and 6 respectively - for me wrong wrong wrong wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoopla Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Don't let them go can be a waste of time theirs and yours as a parent that done this for a number of years and also coached a boys team they got more out of it than those at pro - youth . The boy went to junior football at 15 1/2 and learned a lot more playing against grown men than guys his own age. At 19 he is still in junior football and enjoys it more than anything. Maybe wrong but was there not some thing called pro-forms years ago where a pro club signed you but you signed for another club as well ? This gave the best of both worlds. Have seen too many boys at pro clubs not getting games week in week out where is the development in that and you can see the lads on side lines not enjoying it not getting a game. Also see the fizzing faces of parents when there lad has not been given a game, the travel involve is not great for young lads and try telling them they will get there shot next week when you take them home in the car after giving up ur day off to take them not great and trying to keep their moral up is not easy. If honest give it a miss and let lads play local and if good enough let them step up an age etc. If they are good enough they will still get a chance if the play junior or ammys always scouts doing the rounds somewhere and word will get about if some one is doing well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftrightback Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Hoopla, totally agree been round the pro-youth setup myself, better to let the boys enjoy playing amateur or junior than get lost in (my opinion) a total sham, that is set up by pro clubs to generate money from the SFA. rtg: glad to hear that not all coaches from the Largs Mafia stick to the regimes that I have personally witnessed, small tongue in cheek survey for all in regards to your "shedload of formations" how many different formations can anyone name. answers on the back of a matchbox please ( the infamous Craig Levine 0 striker setup is not allowed). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Let’s face it, we’re never going back to the 1940/50/60’s where Juniors clubs pumped out the stars of the future, those days are long gone. I think there’s a good argument to be had that Senior clubs do not take players until they’re 16, and instead investment is made into local facilities, community clubs and qualified coaches. Let the kids play locally and with their mates until they’re 16 and if they’re good enough, they go to a Premiership clubs youth system, if not they carry on the “pathway” into the Junior side or a lower Senior side. I fully agree that “kids” can easily play Junior at 16/17 and that more should be made of Senior clubs farming out players to Junior sides. It’s a very good grounding and always has been. Reserve team football should be brought back, or at least with some caveats that maybe limits the amount of players over 20 that you can field. I’m sure there’s a compromise that might get the best of both worlds. I was speaking to someone involved in Pro youth a couple of years back and his words always stuck with me. He said that when you look at a Senior U20 team, there probably is only 2 or 3 that have any real chance of making it. The club already knows this, the coaches know this, but they still need 18 players to be able to field a team to allow these 2 or 3 prospects to play. So you have players in the system that the club knows won’t make it but they keep them there for a few seasons longer to pad out the squad, then release when their usefulness has passed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 . Reserve team football should be brought back, or at least with some caveats that maybe limits the amount of players over 20 that you can field. I’m sure there’s a compromise that might get the best of both worlds.[/font][/size] [/font][/size] Good idea, reckon clubs should be limited to only playing 5 guys over 20 in a revived reserve league. Wait, that's exactly what we have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Good idea, reckon clubs should be limited to only playing 5 guys over 20 in a revived reserve league. Wait, that's exactly what we have now. Is it? shows you how much attention I pay to it, in which case I dont see an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddfg Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 does that make you a better player? Sorry mate, sarcasm obviously doesn't travel well, that was my point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.