Wee Willie Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 The monarchy and titled c***s tell us how to live? How so? And how to get rid of them? Vote for - and convince others to vote for - a republican party. * I take it you mean Church of England bishops in the House of Lords - 26. You can kick them (the few at the top) out of Holyrood and put somebody else in. Or are they, too, under the thumb of the monarchy and titled c***s? The monarchy and titled c***s tell us how to live? How so? Do you live in a parallel universe. John Major admitted that he took advice from the Queen on government matters and incorporated her advice in his policies. David Cameron constantly shows secret Defence and other papers to several members of the royals. Is that something that should happen in a Democracy? These titled c**ts in the Lords vote and decide how the rest of us should live. Naebody voted for them. They have a job for life. Is that Democracy? Vote for - and convince others to vote for - a republican party. I bide in Scotland and I'm guessing the SNP is a republican party. (before anybody disagrees) it's political not to give (as a party) your beliefs regarding monarchy and religion. It's called playing politics. I take it you mean Church of England bishops in the House of Lords - 26. My apologies, I thought I had read 240 of them but it must have been regarding another matter. Still 26 bishops from an English church which has no relevance in Scotland but casting votes on how I should live. You can kick them (the few at the top) out of Holyrood and put somebody else in. And that means eff-all in UK terms. The power is and always will be in Westminster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Do you really think these c**ts wouldnae come down on the population wi' an iron fist if they felt their power was weakening. Whit's your take on that Jacksgranda? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paco Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 The monarchy and titled c***s tell us how to live? How so? Do you live in a parallel universe. John Major admitted that he took advice from the Queen on government matters and incorporated her advice in his policies. David Cameron constantly shows secret Defence and other papers to several members of the royals. Is that something that should happen in a Democracy? I don't like the monarchy either but you do realise that advisors, none of whom are elected, view top secret papers and classified documents too and ultimately shape policy at the highest level? I would be very surprised if George Osbourne's budget, for instance, was even a tenth of his own work. Politicians surround themselves with advisers who tell them what to do and how their moves will play with the public. Likewise campaign donors who will offer donations but only if a certain piece of law is tweaked to their advantage, etc. That isn't democratic either, if we're playing that game. Politics isn't a land of milk and honey where only the elected official has any say in the matter. None of the above is a defence of the Royal Family. I'd punt them and the House of Lords tomorrow if I could. But Prince Charles, Brian Soutar or Theresa May's policy adviser - if you're going down that line does it really matter which unelected person is having a say in government policy? Is that democratic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Briggs Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Vote for - and convince others to vote for - a republican party. I bide in Scotland and I'm guessing the SNP is a republican party. (before anybody disagrees) it's political not to give (as a party) your beliefs regarding monarchy and religion. It's called playing politics. You are guessing wrong. The SNP is a monarchist party, clearly proven by these sections in the White Paper "Scotland's Future" Page 721 - "Legislation during the transition period will place a constitutional platform for independence. It will... provide for the continuity of the monarchy in Scotland." Page 723 - “The constitutional platform, along with the refreshed Scotland Act, will be the founding legislation of an independent Scotland and will not be subject to significant alteration pending the preparation of a permanent constitution by the constitutional convention.†Hope that's clear enough for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 I don't like the monarchy either but you do realise that advisors, none of whom are elected, view top secret papers and classified documents too and ultimately shape policy at the highest level? I would be very surprised if George Osbourne's budget, for instance, was even a tenth of his own work. Politicians surround themselves with advisers who tell them what to do and how their moves will play with the public. Likewise campaign donors who will offer donations but only if a certain piece of law is tweaked to their advantage, etc. That isn't democratic either, if we're playing that game. Politics isn't a land of milk and honey where only the elected official has any say in the matter. None of the above is a defence of the Royal Family. I'd punt them and the House of Lords tomorrow if I could. But Prince Charles, Brian Soutar or Theresa May's policy adviser - if you're going down that line does it really matter which unelected person is having a say in government policy? Is that democratic? Fair do's but I was really getting at the royals. Why should royals be included in government decisions just because they're royals. In a way it goes deeper than government ministers showing cabinet papers tae some royals. What else goes on that we never hear about. Whenever the question is asked about the cost of them, we are told it's a secret. It's of National Security and we'll no tell ye cos some of us are taking a skim off the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 You are guessing wrong. The SNP is a monarchist party, clearly proven by these sections in the White Paper "Scotland's Future" Page 721 - "Legislation during the transition period will place a constitutional platform for independence. It will... provide for the continuity of the monarchy in Scotland." Page 723 - “The constitutional platform, along with the refreshed Scotland Act, will be the founding legislation of an independent Scotland and will not be subject to significant alteration pending the preparation of a permanent constitution by the constitutional convention.†Hope that's clear enough for you. Great, but what does it mean. You dinnae think their playing politics. The SNP is trying to cover all the bases. They have tae convince ex tory, labour, lib and anyone else tae vote for them. And I'm all in favour. The bit I've bolded and underlined means to me that nothing will change until a constitutional convention decides. Come independence if they still want a monarchy then I'll vote for the party that disnae. .It's no big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Briggs Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Great, but what does it mean. You dinnae think their playing politics. The SNP is trying to cover all the bases. They have tae convince ex tory, labour, lib and anyone else tae vote for them. And I'm all in favour. The bit I've bolded and underlined means to me that nothing will change until a constitutional convention decides. Come independence if they still want a monarchy then I'll vote for the party that disnae. .It's no big deal. The constitutional convention, not the SNP, could have changed that position. Salmond's independence prospectus in 2013 stated - "Scotland will be a constitutional monarchy, continuing the union of the crowns that dates back to 1603." The SNP has not changed its policy and remains committed to the monarch being the constitutional Head of State of an independent Scotland. It's clearly a monarchist party and it will remain one for the foreseeable future. You will have to decide if you want vote for a pro-indy, republican party in May. The Greens seem to be republican under Natalie Bennett's leadership - http://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/554004/Queen-HOMELESS-Green-Party-council-house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 The constitutional convention, not the SNP, could have changed that position. Salmond's independence prospectus in 2013 stated - "Scotland will be a constitutional monarchy, continuing the union of the crowns that dates back to 1603." The SNP has not changed its policy and remains committed to the monarch being the constitutional Head of State of an independent Scotland. It's clearly a monarchist party and it will remain one for the foreseeable future. You will have to decide if you want vote for a pro-indy, republican party in May. The Greens seem to be republican under Natalie Bennett's leadership - http://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/554004/Queen-HOMELESS-Green-Party-council-house. I've voted for the SNP since 1961. I'll stick wi' them. Come independence if they still want a monarchy then I'll vote for the party that disnae. That is my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Trump for Queen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dipped Flake Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 The constitutional convention, not the SNP, could have changed that position. Salmond's independence prospectus in 2013 stated - "Scotland will be a constitutional monarchy, continuing the union of the crowns that dates back to 1603." The SNP has not changed its policy and remains committed to the monarch being the constitutional Head of State of an independent Scotland. It's clearly a monarchist party and it will remain one for the foreseeable future. You will have to decide if you want vote for a pro-indy, republican party in May. The Greens seem to be republican under Natalie Bennett's leadership - http://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/554004/Queen-HOMELESS-Green-Party-council-house. why do people keep going on about the SNP and what Scotland will be like after Independence. After Independence, Scotland will be like what the people of Scotland want it to be like. If the majority want to get rid of Lizzie then we will. I couldn't really care if we do or don't but, out of politeness think I would wait till she pops off then form a republic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 why do people keep going on about the SNP and what Scotland will be like after Independence. After Independence, Scotland will be like what the people of Scotland want it to be like. If the majority want to get rid of Lizzie then we will. I couldn't really care if we do or don't but, out of politeness think I would wait till she pops off then form a republic :lol: Fair do's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Briggs Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 why do people keep going on about the SNP and what Scotland will be like after Independence. After Independence, Scotland will be like what the people of Scotland want it to be like. If the majority want to get rid of Lizzie then we will. I couldn't really care if we do or don't but, out of politeness think I would wait till she pops off then form a republic Just look at the recent polls as the SNP is totally dominating Scottish politics. It should offer a clear vision of what Scotland would be like after independence. Over the last few years, the SNP has consistently advocated that an independent Scotland would keep the monarchy. Surely the people are entitled to ask why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Just look at the recent polls as the SNP is totally dominating Scottish politics. It should offer a clear vision of what Scotland would be like after independence. Over the last few years, the SNP has consistently advocated that an independent Scotland would keep the monarchy. Surely the people are entitled to ask why. I've already explained tae ye that the SNP has tae cover all the bases. They have tae try and get votes from republicans, monarchists, atheists, god fearing folk and onybody I've missed. The real crunch will come the first elections after Indy. They'll set oot their stall the same as every other party and then the people will decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Briggs Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 I've already explained tae ye that the SNP has tae cover all the bases. They have tae try and get votes from republicans, monarchists, atheists, god fearing folk and onybody I've missed. The real crunch will come the first elections after Indy. They'll set oot their stall the same as every other party and then the people will decide. So they are unprincipled and expedient power-grabbers like the other main parties? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob the tank Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 So they are unprincipled and expedient power-grabbers like the other main parties? Or just being the party that tries to represent everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Briggs Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Or just being the party that tries to represent everyone An old cliche but a good one. In the end, all parties do what their big donors (corporates, think tanks, "charities", unions etc ) tell them to do. Most "think tanks "should be regarded as "dick wanks" as they only fund their fat cats'' delusions of self-importance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 So they are unprincipled and expedient power-grabbers like the other main parties? I hardly think the SNP are power grabbers in Scotland and I hardly think they are power grabbers in a UK sense. What would be the point? and it would surely be impossible cos the sums don't add up. Or just being the party that tries to represent everyone I would go with that one. At least 'til Indy stick the gither then first post Indy election vote for whatever party. You know it makes sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetterlund Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 Trump. Trump thread for this pish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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