Trump

[Wee Willie]

Reported for derailing.

Surely a detour? Was Marilyn & JFK no a couple - both murdered - two conspiracies - back on track 

[LongTimeLurker]

Marilyn is said to have topped herself. Maybe she did and maybe she didn't. If it is true that she was shagging a mob boss and the president at the same time then there certainly would have been motives for the American elite to remove her from the equation with a minimum of fuss. I seriously doubt everything that appears in the history books is an accurate description of what really happened because as Napoleon put it, "what is history, but a fable agreed upon."

[Granny Danger]

You know I was going to offer my commiserations following your team's relegation but now I know you are responsible for the JFK shooting - I am more inclined to say that it serves you right

Careful you, I've still got the rifle.

[welshbairn]

Good call but the question on everybody's lips is who killed Marilyn Monroe?

I did, by sex.

[Fullerene]

 

Well, Arthur Schlesinger Jr, a special assistant to Kennedy and renowned academic, was asked not too long before he died if he thought it was a conspiracy, he said yes. They asked who he thought was responsible, his reply was "Well, we were at war with the national security state."

Evelyn Lincoln, Kennedy's personal secretary, was asked not long afterr Jackie Kennedy died in 1994 if she thought it was a conspiracy, she said yes. They asked who she thought was responsible she said she thought there were five main conspirators - the CIA, Hoover, LBJ, the Mafia and the anti-Castro Cubans in Florida.

This is the mainstream conspiracy theory, of all conspiracy theories this is by far the most popular and most credible. Much more credible than the Lone Nut Theory which falls apart as soon as you look into it.

This is where I get lost. 

 

If this was true, how would it be organised?

Would the CIA simply call the Cubans?

"Hi Juan, sorry we made a mess with the Bay of Pigs but anyway, we need to talk to you."

"No sweat, Amigo.  What is it?"

"We are looking to top JFK.  What do you think?"

"Sounds good, how can we help?"

"Well, for a start, do you happen to have a phone number for organised crime in America - we think we need to get them onboard as well."

 

Presumably with so many people, they would probably have hired a conference centre and block booked a hotel

Somebody would have written the schedule and all that.

 

9:00  General Introduction

10:00 Coffee Break with Blueberry Muffins

10:30 Where should we try

12:00 Lunch - Buffet

13:00 When

15:00 How

 

I know most Americans don't normally use the 24 hour clock - not the point

 

Incidentally, I would love to get hold of one of those name badges - "Delegate Dillinger - Organised Crime"

 

"Afternoon Delegates.  Roger Dillinger, Organised Crime, Missouri .  My uncle John taught me all there is to know about shooting people - so let me tell you a thing or to"

 

Does any of this sound plausible?

[Wee Willie]

It does tae me but you've missed oot

 

8:50 Prayers

9:00  General Introduction
10:00 Coffee Break with Blueberry Muffins
10:30 Where should we try
12:00 Lunch - Buffet

13:00 When
15:00 How

15:10 Raising the flag and singing of 'Stars and Stripes'

[Wee Willie]

I did, by sex.

I dinnae believe ye - you're jist a bairn 

[banana]

"what is history, but a fable agreed upon."

 

Very astute.

[Cerberus]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-36425368

 

Trump is coming to Scotland this month.

 

Make Scotland Great Again.

[mjw]

He was getting tore into the US press yesterday.

He pointed one hack out for special treatment calling him sleazy.

[banana]

He pointed one hack out for special treatment calling him sleazy.

 

Yet more evidence of Trump being a misandrist!

[Peppino Impastato]

 

This is where I get lost. 

 

If this was true, how would it be organised?

Would the CIA simply call the Cubans?

"Hi Juan, sorry we made a mess with the Bay of Pigs but anyway, we need to talk to you."

"No sweat, Amigo.  What is it?"

"We are looking to top JFK.  What do you think?"

"Sounds good, how can we help?"

"Well, for a start, do you happen to have a phone number for organised crime in America - we think we need to get them onboard as well."

 

Presumably with so many people, they would probably have hired a conference centre and block booked a hotel

Somebody would have written the schedule and all that.

 

9:00  General Introduction

10:00 Coffee Break with Blueberry Muffins

10:30 Where should we try

12:00 Lunch - Buffet

13:00 When

15:00 How

 

I know most Americans don't normally use the 24 hour clock - not the point

 

Incidentally, I would love to get hold of one of those name badges - "Delegate Dillinger - Organised Crime"

 

"Afternoon Delegates.  Roger Dillinger, Organised Crime, Missouri .  My uncle John taught me all there is to know about shooting people - so let me tell you a thing or to"

 

Does any of this sound plausible?

Did you do even a modicum of research about this before spewing out this pish or did you just ridicule whilst knowing absolutely zilch about the subject and spending precisely zero seconds of your life looking into it?

There's enough stuff out there you couldn't possibly get through it in a lifetime, read something by Mark Lane or JFK and the Unspeakable by James Fetzer if you really want to know. I have no patience with people who know nothing about it, don't actually want to know and just want to act the fanny.

Really, really credible people believe this, LBJ among them for example privately said Texas oil and CIA guys conspired to kill him, for the simple reason that they did. Though he was in on it too.

If you would like to know how it was organised look into Alpha 40, Operation Mongoose etc. The apparatus was already in place, the CIA had been working with the Mafia and the anti-Castro Cubans in Florida for years to try to assassinate Castro (and others, Trujillo of the Dominican Republic for example they got him), they simply turned their guns on Kennedy.

I could name names of people almost certainly involved but you're not really interested, and don't really ask a question or want an answer. Robert and Jackie Kennedy sent an envoy from French intelligence to take a message to Kruschev, we know this as it was declassified after the fall of the Soviet Union so this isn't rumour or conjecture its substantiated fact, the message they wanted to convey was that they believed JFK was killed as the result of 'a right-wing domestic political conspiracy.'

That's his fucking wife and brother saying that, the kooks are the people who say this isn't true, they're the ones whose opinions are fantastical and bullshit. All this is substantiated by mountains and mountains of evidence, there have even been several confessions and a couple of court cases.

[Peppino Impastato]

The interest for people like me is how high did the chain of command go, who gave the order who actually decided to kill him. It seems it probably went as high as Richard Helms who was number 3 in the CIA at the time.

David Atlee Phillips was definitely involved, he was CIA chief for the Western Hemisphere. His brother spoke to him on the phone while he was dying, the hadn't spoken for years because his brother believed he helped kill Kennedy and hated him for it, he refused to speak to him for years then spoke to him on the phone on his deathbed and asked him only one question, were you in Dallas that day, Phillips said yes he was. That's his brother that said that, that's quite a credible source.

E Howard Hunt confessed, though withheld a lot of stuff and claimed he wasn't involved though he was (his son says he used to run round the house singing 'lets finish the job - lets hit Ted' - the CIA also killed RFK who was most likely shot by a guy called Thane Eugene Cesear, well not most likely he definitely did it), so many people have confessed at different times its incredible. Rose Cheramie, David Ferrie, Richard Case Nagell tells an astonishing story.

There's so much stuff its comical, this is just the tip of the iceberg. And we don't know who shot him, imagine that, history won't actually know who shot Kennedy that will be a mystery for all time, though who actually pulled the triggers isn't that important compared to who was paying them. What we do know for sure is Oswald shot nobody that day.

[welshbairn]

Probably just passing and looking for something read in the book depository.

[Peppino Impastato]

 

Probably just passing and looking for something read in the book depository.

No he worked there, for five weeks. The job was got for him by another CIA asset Ruth Paine. Read about her family she is definitely CIA and was one of Oswald's handlers along with George de Mohernschildt, also CIA.

Ruth Paine actually took a call for a better paying job for Oswald at an airport and didn't pass it on to him.

He never shot anyone though and would have walked free from any subsequent trial if it ever got that far, which it wouldn't have for various reasons.

[Yank Mike]

My. Impastato, assuming that what you allege is correct, could such a conspiracy happen today? Or would it be impossible in the modern world?

[jagfox]

My. Impastato, assuming that what you allege is correct, could such a conspiracy happen today? Or would it be impossible in the modern world?

He thought Arsenal were going to win the Premier League last season so this is small bananas to him, imo.

[Peppino Impastato]

 

My. Impastato, assuming that what you allege is correct, could such a conspiracy happen today? Or would it be impossible in the modern world?

I don't know, I think the world was a different place back then it would have been much easier than now. Camera phones would have been a serious issue, all footage and cameras at the scene were immediately seized by various police officers and Secret Service agents (though the Secret Service confirmed later there were no Secret Service agents in the vicinity at the time, these were fake SS agents).

I think its more likely the case the type of person the powers that be would want to assassinate stands no chance at all of ever becoming President these days, they would not get the nomination.

Kennedy was the last President to take on the entrenched powers for the good of the common man, and they blew his head off. Nobody has tried since, with the honourable exception of Carter. I don't think you'll see his like again tbh.

[welshbairn]

 

 (though the Secret Service confirmed later there were no Secret Service agents in the vicinity at the time, these were fake SS agents).

Kennedy was the last President to take on the entrenched powers for the good of the common man, and they blew his head off. Nobody has tried since, with the honourable exception of Carter. I don't think you'll see his like again tbh.

 

Hang on, there were no Secret Service agents in the vicinity when the President was shot, whose main job is to protect the President? Who were running alongside the motorcade? Surely at least the First Lady would have noticed something odd, they would have seen them almost every day.

 

As to your second thing above, I doubt the Vietnamese common man would see it that way, and all the civil rights stuff was pushed through by LBJ.

[Peppino Impastato]

 

Hang on, there were no Secret Service agents in the vicinity when the President was shot, whose main job is to protect the President? Who were running alongside the motorcade? Surely at least the First Lady would have noticed something odd, they would have seen them almost every day.

 

As to your second thing above, I doubt the Vietnamese common man would see it that way, and all the civil rights stuff was pushed through by LBJ.

That's correct, none whatsoever. There were SS agents in the motorcade, but none whatsoever not even one in Dealey Plaza after the motorcade had passed. However, SS agents were going around Dealey Plaza collecting cameras etc and showing SS identification.

There is a famous story of one SS agent showing SS ID to a police officer who rushed up the Grassy Knoll immediately after the shots. This guy was part of the assassination team, may even have been a shooter. We'll never know who he was. He may have fired the fatal shots as they were definitely fired from there.

As for Vietnam I don't have the time to reply properly, but you couldn't be more wrong. Kennedy was desperately trying not to get involved with Vietnam, there were precisely zero combat troops there when he was alive, he had already passed an order dictating all US troops to be removed by the end of 1964 and a thousand home by Christmas 1963. This was rescinded three days after he died. Vietnam and his refusal to get involved was one of the main reasons he was killed. He had done the same in Laos previously. He did not want Diem assassinated and nearly burst a blood vessel in his head with anger when he found out the CIA had done it.

As for civil rights that was Kennedy's bill, he had always said that would be the focus of his second term and LBJ openly said it was Kennedy's bill and he was securing Kennedy's legacy by passing it.