Bully Wee Villa Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 On the other hand, they'd only be playing friendlies otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clayhole Blue Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 It cant be till after the cup final as one of Hibs or Rangers will be excluded. Well they can make the draw now - Rangers in the group stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 They won't make a draw until at least the League AGM at the end of the month. It's quite possible they won't make it then. Not sure why everybody thinks this is surprising. We've not had a draw for either the Challenge or League Cup until after the League fixtures were out in June in each of the last few seasons. We are starting a couple of weeks earlier so I'd hope they'd try to hold the draw earlier but it's not exactly a major issue if there's only 4 weeks notice of the games. That's more than you usually get for cup ties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clayhole Blue Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 They won't make a draw until at least the League AGM at the end of the month. It's quite possible they won't make it then. Not sure why everybody thinks this is surprising. We've not had a draw for either the Challenge or League Cup until after the League fixtures were out in June in each of the last few seasons. We are starting a couple of weeks earlier so I'd hope they'd try to hold the draw earlier but it's not exactly a major issue if there's only 4 weeks notice of the games. That's more than you usually get for cup ties. Not surprising SD - it's par for the course. But I just don't know why you would delay making a draw once you know who is taking part - that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Accept SD's point, but 2 of the dates are midweek and some of the weekend games will be be moved to different days/times for TV coverage. So in that respect it's not quite the same as waiting for the Challenge Cup R1 or League Cup R1 draw, as you knew they'd be Saturday 3pm. If they are wanting some decent publicity they should probably draw it before Euro 2016 begins, too. The sections were scrapped after just two seasons in the 80s, I wouldn't be surprised if this shambles is culled even earlier. Four matches to reach round 2, aye, haud me back! Well, who knows. Groups weren't successful before and that was with 2/4 qualifying not 1.5/5. However they've signed a 5-year TV deal including 6 groupstage games... Equally they've also got a naming rights sponsor, and even if crowds aren't great they'll be better than the friendlies many clubs may treat them as. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Making the draws early also helps clubs to alter their pre-season plans based on who they are playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Still doubtful these games will replace friendlies /be treated as friendlies, unless their dead rubbers. No manager is going to want to enter these games cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Imagine being seething because a cup draw hasn't been made 2 months early Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Accept SD's point, but 2 of the dates are midweek and some of the weekend games will be be moved to different days/times for TV coverage. So in that respect it's not quite the same as waiting for the Challenge Cup R1 or League Cup R1 draw, as you knew they'd be Saturday 3pm. Not getting why this is different to any other cup draw? Games move for tv and do so on less than 4 weeks notice. The League Cup has always had midweek games, they dont need months of notice to sort out.People are interested because they dont know how its going to work as the league havent made any public announcement on that yet, I get that, but not having held the draw yet is no surprise. There is absolutely no chance they are going to make a draw for next season before this one is finished. The first potential date is the League agm next week if they arent organising a tv draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Lanarkshire Jag Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 I think BT Sport(given they will be covering the competition) would have liked to have the draw after the playoff second leg given that it would determine the final 'top seed' position(Rangers being top seeds if Falkirk win and Killie retaining their seed with their success). Seems pretty much guaranteed now that Rangers will face another Premiership side in the groups Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 I think BT Sport(given they will be covering the competition) would have liked to have the draw after the playoff second leg given that it would determine the final 'top seed' position(Rangers being top seeds if Falkirk win and Killie retaining their seed with their success). Seems pretty much guaranteed now that Rangers will face another Premiership side in the groups Killie would have been seeded even if they had lost today. Seedings are always determined based on the previous year's league position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Still doubtful these games will replace friendlies /be treated as friendlies, unless their dead rubbers. No manager is going to want to enter these games cold. Accepted - but I don't see clubs having as long a build-up of friendlies to these as they did before the old type of start. Berwick for example seem to be having 2 weeks of friendlies, in the past it might have been 4. If one of the Premiership clubs gets a skoosh of a group you could also see the manager "mixing things up" from the beginning, and given plenty teams will probably be eliminated before they finish there are those dead-rubbers too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Lanarkshire Jag Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Killie would have been seeded even if they had lost today. No they wouldn't have. Rangers would have moved into the 8th top seed, Falkirk would have been 9th, Dundee United 10th and then Killie in 11th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Wee Villa Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Killie would have been seeded even if they had lost today. Seedings are always determined based on the previous year's league position. I'm not sure if that's still the case. New format, new rules? I hope so because favouring teams based on where they were playing the season before was always a fucking stupid idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Lanarkshire Jag Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 I'm not sure if that's still the case. New format, new rules? I hope so because favouring teams based on where they were playing the season before was always a fucking stupid idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 No they wouldn't have. Rangers would have moved into the 8th top seed, Falkirk would have been 9th, Dundee United 10th and then Killie in 11th. Eh? Surely not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Lanarkshire Jag Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Eh? Surely not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry94 Posted May 22, 2016 Author Share Posted May 22, 2016 They would have been the 10th and 11th seeded teams, therefore not amongst the top seeds and would have faced one of the eight Premiership teams that occupied the top seeding. It goes on league placing. So for example, Hearts who won the Championship last season entered at round one and St Mirren, who had just been relegated, started in round two. Division is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Lanarkshire Jag Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 It goes on league placing. So for example, Hearts who won the Championship last season entered at round one and St Mirren, who had just been relegated, started in round two. Division is irrelevant. Under the old system - yes I agree. Under the new revised rules and seeding system. Hearts would be pot 1(assuming 4 european qualifiers in prem) and St. Mirren would be pot 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Ian Blair the SPFL secretary was quoted early in the season (before all this groupstage stuff was confirmed, tbf) that they were looking at changing the rules so that seedings, entry points, and so on were based on the league being played in during the season in question... That is how the Scottish Cup works. It never made any sense and caused problems with relegated club(s) getting byes to R2 and promoted clubs having to play in R1 and punt their ties into midweek. I genuinely wonder if it was unintentional. There was also that nonsense of a 5th club getting bye to R3 despite not being in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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