Offensive Behaviour at Football Act cave in.

[John Lambies Doos]

Stop state funding sectarian schools. Simples really. 2-3 generations later problem solved. One of the biggest issues in world is them vs us argument.

 

I went to catholic primary, the proddys were different. I went to mixed secondary school, some of my best mates were protestant

 

 

[Baxter Parp]

2 minutes ago, HibsFan said:

I'm sorry, I'm no fan of the Union Bears, but "fascist" march?

What do you think is their end game, overthrowing the government and running things themselves, or are they in fact a bunch of 17 year old kiddy on ultras who just want to imitate what's going on all across Europe before derby matches?

Even if that's true, is that not a good enough reason to nip it in the bud?

[williemillersmoustache]

I'm sorry, I'm no fan of the Union Bears, but "fascist" march? [emoji38]
What do you think is their end game, overthrowing the government and running things themselves, or are they in fact a bunch of 17 year old kiddy on ultras who just want to imitate what's going on all across Europe before derby matches?

Accepting the appalling diet and the sulphur mines they must work in, many of them look about 40-50

[Ross.]

2 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

Stop state funding sectarian schools. Simples really. 2-3 generations later problem solved. One of the biggest issues in world is them vs us argument

While I am all for state funded schools being entirely secular, I don't see this as anything like the route of the issue. England has separate Catholic schools but no noticeable problem when compared to Scotland.

[HibsFan]

2 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

Even if that's true, is that not a good enough reason to nip it in the bud?

What do you mean "even if that's true"? It patently is.

This is what a minority of SNP types can't understand, particularly when they don't follow a football team. Since the casuals era of the late 80s, the % of Scottish football fans who go to a game looking for a fight is so low, especially when most games in Scottish football are Dumbarton - Falkirk rather than Rangers - Celtic. A lot of people go to a game with their family, sit there quietly and go home again at full time.  Some go with their pals and drink before the game, and maybe sing a song or two. And then there's the last section, the active support, either people who just like to stand and sing or actual ultra groups like Union Bears, Green Brigade, Well Bois and Since1875.

In my opinion, Police Scotland and the lawmakers of this country are unjustifiably terrified of the last group, and seem to believe that - at any given moment - a full scale riot is about to break out. Case in point, at Fir Park in October, there were about 20 police officers standing between the East Stand and the away end. The likelihood of Motherwell and Hibs fans having running battles with each other if the police weren't there is absolutely minimal. There are about 10 fixtures in Scotland where a 'heavy' police presence is justifiable (off the top of my head, Old Firm travelling to Aberdeen, Rangers vs Hibs, Celtic vs Hearts, Edinburgh derbies and the Old Firm). But even then, it's worth remembering that people know that they're risking their jobs, their livelihood and even their freedom if they get caught on CCTV scrapping with rival fans outside a ground. That's already enough of a deterrent for almost every football fan in Scotland.

And, if you think the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act curbed any sort of sectarian singing, then you've just not been paying attention. The sectarian songbook of Rangers was at its most diminished when UEFA kept threatening them with stadium closures and the like in the late 2000s. What, in my opinion, caused a resurgence in the 'party songs' was their liquidation. They used the sectarian songs as a two fingers to the SFA and the authorities, as well as the fact that there was (marginally) less media attention on them once they were in the seaside leagues. The victim complex that they've developed has them thinking that it's them against the world, and therefore they need to uphold the *ahem* proud traditions of their club by acting like bigots.

[John Lambies Doos]

While I am all for state funded schools being entirely secular, I don't see this as anything like the route of the issue. England has separate Catholic schools but no noticeable problem when compared to Scotland.

Do they have orange walks in England? Imagine this scenario, wee Billy is dragged by his father to go on Orange walk. Wee Billys da Big Billy is a c**t and puts his orange sevco tap on, opens a can and follows the flutes with wee Billy in toe. They reach the junction of Dumbarton Road and Byres Road where wee Sean is crossing road with his Celtic tap on.. Big Billy; see him son he's a wee ******. Ha ha wee Billy laughs
Fast forward 30 years, same scenario... 'no da that Sean he is in my class and is a good mate'
State funded secular Schools would lead to scenario 2 in a couple of generations

[Ross.]

2 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

Do they have orange walks in England? Imagine this scenario, wee Billy is dragged by his father to go on Orange walk. Wee Billys da Big Billy is a c**t and puts his orange sevco tap on, opens a can and follows the flutes with wee Billy in toe. They reach the junction of Dumbarton Road and Byres Road where wee Sean is crossing road with his Celtic tap on.. Big Billy; see him son he's a wee ******. Ha ha wee Billy laughs
Fast forward 30 years, same scenario... 'no da that Sean he is in my class and is a good mate'
State funded secular Schools would lead to scenario 2 in a couple of generations

I can see that view point butI'm not so sure it will follow. Sadly, the likes of big Billy will be telling wee Billy that he can't be pals with Sean, because Sean is a "Wee ****** B" whos dad will be poisoning his mind against wee Billy so can't be trusted, and Sean's dad will be telling Sean that wee Billy's dad is a "Dirty Orange B" and wee Sean better stay away from wee Billy because big Billy will be poisoning his mind so he isn't to be trusted. And the problem will persist.

[John Lambies Doos]

I can see that view point butI'm not so sure it will follow. Sadly, the likes of big Billy will be telling wee Billy that he can't be pals with Sean, because Sean is a "Wee ****** B" whos dad will be poisoning his mind against wee Billy so can't be trusted, and Sean's dad will be telling Sean that wee Billy's dad is a "Dirty Orange B" and wee Sean better stay away from wee Billy because big Billy will be poisoning his mind so he isn't to be trusted. And the problem will persist.

If they are in the same class, time will root that out. Wee Billy may even convert and join the priesthood when he grows up and then marry big Sean (cause that stupid no marry catholic nonsense will be gone)

[Ross.]

Just now, John Lambies Doos said:

7 minutes ago, Ross. said:

I can see that view point butI'm not so sure it will follow. Sadly, the likes of big Billy will be telling wee Billy that he can't be pals with Sean, because Sean is a "Wee ****** B" whos dad will be poisoning his mind against wee Billy so can't be trusted, and Sean's dad will be telling Sean that wee Billy's dad is a "Dirty Orange B" and wee Sean better stay away from wee Billy because big Billy will be poisoning his mind so he isn't to be trusted. And the problem will persist.

If they are in the same class, time will root that out. Wee Billy may even convert and join the priesthood when he grows up and then marry big Sean (cause that stupid no marry catholic nonsense will be gone)

We can but dream.

[Baxter Parp]

26 minutes ago, HibsFan said:

What do you mean "even if that's true"? It patently is.

It's patently nothing of the sort and even if it was, " just wanting to imitate what's going on all across Europe" is fucking appalling given the rise in anti-Semitism and Islamophobia perpetrated by "kiddy-on ultras" right across Europe.

Yours Truly,

An SNP type that follows a team.

[HibsFan]

15 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

It's patently nothing of the sort and even if it was, " just wanting to imitate what's going on all across Europe" is fucking appalling given the rise in anti-Semitism and Islamophobia perpetrated by "kiddy-on ultras" right across Europe.

Wanting to imitate what's going on all across Europe in the sense of drums, European football songs and setting off pyro, not in trying to drive the Jewish and Islamic population out of Scotland. The Green Brigade could also fall under the "kiddy-on ultras" category, and they've shown themselves to be pro human rights and have championed causes such as Palestine as well as foodbanks and the like, how would you suggest that they are emblematic of the rise of the far right, then?

[Baxter Parp]

25 minutes ago, HibsFan said:

Wanting to imitate what's going on all across Europe in the sense of drums, European football songs and setting off pyro, not in trying to drive the Jewish and Islamic population out of Scotland.

Where do the Nazi salutes, use of sectarian language and violent imagery fit into this vision of comradely friendship?

28 minutes ago, HibsFan said:

The Green Brigade could also fall under the "kiddy-on ultras" category, and they've shown themselves to be pro human rights and have championed causes such as Palestine as well as foodbanks and the like, how would you suggest that they are emblematic of the rise of the far right, then?

Do they do Nazi-salutes under the guise of tradition?

[Glenconner]

15 hours ago, John Lambies Doos said:

Stop state funding sectarian schools. Simples really. 2-3 generations later problem solved. One of the biggest issues in world is them vs us argument.

 

I went to catholic primary, the proddys were different. I went to mixed secondary school, some of my best mates were protestant

 

 

Could we not ban poverty while we're at it.

Why can't we just all be rich.

[mjw]

Do they have orange walks in England?

They do.
You can even see one in Benidorm and Phuket if you fancy it.

[Baxter Parp]

12 minutes ago, mjw said:

They do.
You can even see one in Benidorm and Phuket if you fancy it.

Phuk that.

[HibsFan]

The war is over, the rebels have won!

[welshbairn]

On 14/03/2018 at 15:03, John Lambies Doos said:

Do they have orange walks in England?

I was having breakfast in a Derry/Londonderry cafe on the morning of the Apprentice Boys Parade during the Troubles when about 20 Scousers came in wearing Orange outfits and stuff showing the Liverpool lodge where they were from. From the chat they were serving squaddies. A tad intimidating it was.

[Londonwell]

I can’t make up my mind whether James Kelly is a fucking scum bag or is just as thick as he looks- he’s probably both.

Whatever you thought about the act, this sends out the completely wrong message and empowers the knuckle draggers from far and wide.  What the f**k are the Greens playing at as well!?

Edited March 15, 2018 by Londonwell

[mizfit]

The OBFA is something that drives me crazy - as I can't arrive on a message board friendly definitive view on it.
It is possible to think it's a really poorly conceived and drafted bit of legislation that came about as an attempt to be seen to do something rather than as a considered response to a complex social problem that isn't really related to Football. It's also possible to be implacably opposed to something that would potentially criminalise someone for doing something at the football that wouldn't be the case elsewhere. It's also reasonable to have a "f**k you" reaction to a law that serves to confirm a certain middle-class caricature of football supporters where we're all mad 80's casuals wrecking town centres.
On the other hand, it's reasonable to be a bit queasy when you see some of the people who are/will be empowered by the OBFA being flushed down the toilet regardless if it's the correct decision. When you can't escape the feeling that the "enemy" that you've grown up amongst - listening to their sectarian drivel & whataboutery, and suffering their comedy marches, etc - will be laughing at this and feeling that they've won - you question whether we're doing the right thing. You could also feel that a lot of the politicians and campaigners are doing it for self-serving and cynical reasons - and are focussed on giving the SNP a kick in the baws or ingratiating themselves with the OF supports rather than any real reason of principle.
Lastly - you can't help feel that if the police and football authorities had just done their fucking job over a period of decades instead of craven appeasment, we wouldn't be at this point at all.
My head hurts.

Absolutely 100% this.

[John Lambies Doos]

The war is over, the rebels have won! [emoji38]

Sean South from Garryowen... la la la