Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Casagolda]

On 31/08/2017 at 22:49, Casagolda said:

If we've got anything like 400k for Ben Heneghan it's a cracking bit of business. I mean I liked the guy and he's started this season in fine form but I didn't ever see us making money out of him, especially with some of his performances towards the end of last season. 

As for replacing him I honestly just wanted an experienced, solid, no nonsense, no thrills type who would lead and organize the younger ones around him. Hopefully Hartley fits the bill, over 300 starts down South(predominately in League 1) and an excellent scoring record has me cautiously optimistic. Pretty sure we've signed strikers with worse goals to game ratios.  

Fair to say Mr Hartley has been everything I was dreaming of and more.

5 games, 3 clean sheets, just 3 goals conceded(which includes a nonsensical penalty), he's chipped in with a couple of goals of his own as promised and is the only Motherwell centre back I think I've ever seen produce a Cruyff turn in the opposition six yard box. 

With Carson behind him plus McHugh/Campbell in front of him the spine of our team is unrecognisable from the soft touch it was last season.  Can't remember the last time I was even vaguely confident in our defence, even on Saturday I kept waiting for us to gift Thistle a chance at some point. The fact that we never even gave them a sniff of even a half chance was actually quite unsettling.

The days of lining up with the likes of Samson, Zak Jules and Super Joe in defence almost seem like a distant memory.

[Swello]

Couldn't agree more with that. First and foremost, it's great to have a proper solid centre half and we look a lot more difficult to beat with him in there. At the moment, it feels like the final piece of the jigsaw. Last season, our defence (regardless of who was in there) was constantly exposed as our midfield offered no protection to them - but now with Campbell, Rose and McHugh putting a power of work in, teams need to work to even get at our defence. Hartley seems to be one of these signings who "gets" the club right away and looks like he's been playing here for years.

Almost as important will be the effect on Kipre because with the best will in the world, Henneghan wasn't going to help with Cedric's development as he was fairly inexperienced himself. Now that he's playing alongside an experienced guy who can talk him through games, Cedric should improve further, which is important if he is to be one of our next paydays...

The pleasing thing at this stage of the season is that you could pick any part of the team and make a pretty much irrefutable case that it's improved from the last couple of seasons. Regardless of how this season pans out, that's a pretty good achievement...

[well fan for life]

On 30/09/2017 at 12:25, Swello said:

I guess the marketing bit he can point to some success - I thought the season ticket marketing was really good this year and I would imagine that will be the main thing in his remit. We sold more season tickets and crowds seem to be up - so he can rightly take some credit.

The fan engagement thing wasn't a success IMO - I thought the SLO thing was completely overcooked and most people ran a mile from it. It had a huge job description that strongly made it feel like it should be a paid role rather than a volunteer thing with some perks. In a supporter-base like ours, there are vanishingly few people that could ever meet the criteria (eg -  committing to be there for every away game) and it was never likely to be a success. To be clear - I like the idea of an SLO but in a club like ours' it would need to be done differently and built up from something more modest at first.

It seems that  people who actually met the guy found him decent and folk that followed him on twitter found him a bit of a dick. My only impression based on his twitter stuff is that he thought the english lads culture/#bantz worked here, when it really doesn't.

I had a chat with him about the SLO thing once I read the job description and my point was basically along the lines of how they can honestly expect it to be a voluntary position. It had a longer list of responsibilities than some job interviews I've been to, yet there was no reward for doing it. There is absolutely no way anyone with a full-time job could also fulfil that position. 

TBF to him, the whole supporters survey & season ticket campaign has been great, so he's done well there. He's hard-headed and arrogant, so he'll go far in a marketing job. 

[Desp]

What was the back four in the 5-1 Dundee game? Wasn't it something like McMillan, Heneghan, Jules and Chalmers?

That'll keep you awake at night reliving that horror.

[capt_oats]

Enjoy (I went straight to this video after reading Casagolda's post earlier).

 

Edited October 3, 2017 by capt_oats

[Casagolda]

That 5th goal by the way. 

All 11 Motherwell players back inside the penalty box 'defending' the free kick, yet there was still 3 Dundee players standing unmarked at the back post.

Incredible.

[Ron Aldo]

What was the back four in the 5-1 Dundee game? Wasn't it something like McMillan, Heneghan, Jules and Chalmers?

That'll keep you awake at night reliving that horror.

Good times.

Zak Jules is the worst player I've ever witnessed play for Motherwell.

[thisGRAEME]

28 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

I had a chat with him about the SLO thing once I read the job description and my point was basically along the lines of how they can honestly expect it to be a voluntary position. It had a longer list of responsibilities than some job interviews I've been to, yet there was no reward for doing it. There is absolutely no way anyone with a full-time job could also fulfil that position. 

Out of curiosity, what was his response to this?

The SLO thing has been up and down across Scotland it appears, as most folk seem to be doing it as a box ticking exercise. Some wifey in the Aberdeen ticket office is theirs, I believe...

My overwhelming feeling about the Motherwell one is much the same as you that they were asking for far too much for far too little in return. This, in return, will lead to the SLOs being fleece wearing mile-outs with early retirement rather than someone that could engage in some way or another with....y'know, teenagers.

[well fan for life]

4 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

Out of curiosity, what was his response to this?

The SLO thing has been up and down across Scotland it appears, as most folk seem to be doing it as a box ticking exercise. Some wifey in the Aberdeen ticket office is theirs, I believe...

My overwhelming feeling about the Motherwell one is much the same as you that they were asking for far too much for far too little in return. This, in return, will lead to the SLOs being fleece wearing mile-outs with early retirement rather than someone that could engage in some way or another with....y'know, teenagers.

 

http://motherwellfc.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Motherwell-FC-SLO.pdf Just read that job description, man! I see job descriptions for full time IT jobs that require less time & effort.

When I spoke to him and one of his mates who was involved with SLOs their vision was it was someone who would liaise with fans on matchdays and via forums etc. Someone from his previous gaff was saying he didn't find it took up any more time than he'd have spent anyway. Dunno about you guys, but I quite enjoy going to the football, having a couple of pints and talking pish with my pals. I don't particularly want it to become like a second job.

[Swello]

45 minutes ago, Ron Aldo said:

 

Good times.

Zak Jules is the worst player I've ever witnessed play for Motherwell.

 

I must confess to having some sympathy with Jules. Yes, he was honkingly bad - but he was a totally inexperienced player and was dropped into an utter clusterfuck of a team at that point, with a manager who was beyond help. That's a total sink or swim thing - and he really sunk.

17 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

 

My overwhelming feeling about the Motherwell one is much the same as you that they were asking for far too much for far too little in return. This, in return, will lead to the SLOs being fleece wearing mile-outs with early retirement rather than someone that could engage in some way or another with....y'know, teenagers.

 

Edited October 3, 2017 by Swello

[well fan for life]

3 minutes ago, Swello said:

I must confess to having some sympathy with Jules. Yes, he was honkingly bad - but he was a totally inexperienced player and was dropped into an utter clusterfuck of a team at that point, with a manager who was beyond help. That's a total sink or swim thing - and he really sunk.

 

I was talking to my da about Zak Jules the other day. I reckon it was a case that we were in dire need of cover on the left side of defence and someone's just said he's available and a Scotland U21 player without ever seeing anything of him.

At least I hope it was that because he was absolutely fucking terrible at the fitba.

[Swello]

11 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

 

http://motherwellfc.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Motherwell-FC-SLO.pdf Just read that job description, man! I see job descriptions for full time IT jobs that require less time & effort.

When I spoke to him and one of his mates who was involved with SLOs their vision was it was someone who would liaise with fans on matchdays and via forums etc. Someone from his previous gaff was saying he didn't find it took up any more time than he'd have spent anyway. Dunno about you guys, but I quite enjoy going to the football, having a couple of pints and talking pish with my pals. I don't particularly want it to become like a second job.

My reaction at the time (probably in the depths of this thread somewhere) was that it read like something a big corporate would put together for a senior job (although it's rare to see a job description of that kind of length anywhere). Given the make-up of our support (ie - not exactly teeming with middle-class, middle managers) - all the talk about Stakeholders and Benchmarks and "creative thinkers" would just turn people off - and that's before they are expected to "diffuse recognisable tendencies towards violence" during the game. 

The sheer amount of work involved is staggering when you read it back (think of a week with 3 games in it) - and I actually think there is an arrogance there to expect that someone will do that for no pay - the young lassies in the pie stand will be paid more by the club than the SLO (and their only stakeholders are angry old guys whose pie base has stuck to the foil). Simply put, no-one with a job and a family could do the SLO role as it is written down there.

Everyone's circumstances are different - but I'd imagine if this role was a paid one that would allow someone to do it (say)part-time in conjunction with another part-time job and make some kind of living out of it - then it would attract non-fleece wearing younger folk that could actually be credible in this role and there would probably be no shortage of people that would want to work for the club (as opposed to being exploited by it...). 

 

[well fan for life]

6 minutes ago, Swello said:

My reaction at the time (probably in the depths of this thread somewhere) was that it read like something a big corporate would put together for a senior job (although it's rare to see a job description of that kind of length anywhere). Given the make-up of our support (ie - not exactly teeming with middle-class, middle managers) - all the talk about Stakeholders and Benchmarks and "creative thinkers" would just turn people off - and that's before they are expected to "diffuse recognisable tendencies towards violence" during the game. 

The sheer amount of work involved is staggering when you read it back (think of a week with 3 games in it) - and I actually think there is an arrogance there to expect that someone will do that for no pay - the young lassies in the pie stand will be paid more by the club than the SLO (and their only stakeholders are angry old guys whose pie base has stuck to the foil). Simply put, no-one with a job and a family could do the SLO role as it is written down there.

Everyone's circumstances are different - but I'd imagine if this role was a paid one that would allow someone to do it (say)part-time in conjunction with another part-time job and make some kind of living out of it - then it would attract non-fleece wearing younger folk that could actually be credible in this role and there would probably be no shortage of people that would want to work for the club (as opposed to being exploited by it...). 

 

Pretty much hit the nail on the head. 

I mean look at the home & away match day stuff. That in itself is a full days work. Particularly "At least one of the SLO’s to attend pre-match meeting usually around 10am and usually on a Monday or Wednesday to deliver previous week report." So even though it's not a job, and they're not paying you to do it, you need to be in on Monday morning for a meeting. Mental.

The whole job description reads like some w****r off of The Apprentice has written it. 

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, well fan for life said:

I was talking to my da about Zak Jules the other day. I reckon it was a case that we were in dire need of cover on the left side of defence and someone's just said he's available and a Scotland U21 player without ever seeing anything of him.

At least I hope it was that because he was absolutely fucking terrible at the fitba.

Curious you say that as it's something that had crossed my mind too as the recruitment this year already looks to have been miles better than last summer. I seem to remember Robinson suggesting that it had been him that had recommended McHugh to the club in one of the pre-season videos on the MFC YouTube.

I alluded to this in the Killie manager thread but without wanting to have a pop at McGhee, it does raise questions as to whether he had any idea what the players he was getting were like. As far as I can see our chief scout/head of recruitment is the same guy, our COO is the same guy and I can't imagine our budget is drastically different given the whole fan ownership thing yet the "quality" or at least the fit of the players who have come in are markedly more suited to what the manager seems to be trying to do with the side. The key difference seems to be the manager. When Alan Burrows did that extended interview for the YouTube channel he seemed to be quite pointed as far as the effort Robinson was putting in to recruitment and highlighted that he had been putting in the miles going and watching players.

It's the benefit of hindsight but given Clay came in on trial seemingly because he was pals with Tait and we'd dealt with their agent and we were short of a midfielder with Pearson having left, we ended up giving Samson a new deal and making him first choice (and sticking with him) simply because he'd hung about then and well...Jacob Blyth's entire Fir Park career is worth questioning it seems entirely possible that, given he's the only change in the set up and recruitment structure, that McGhee was simply picking some names off a list and a cursory glance at WyScout or Scout7 in a sort of "get me a 6ft 3" target man please"-style, "OK, he'll do" type way. Even the difference in Bowman between this season under Robinson and last season under McGhee suggests that we brought him in without a clue what to do with him.

As for the SLO thing, the only appropriate response to that Job Description (that's not a paid job) is "f**k that". The level of grief the poor lassie who was eventually announced got from the utter maniacs in our fanbase was unreal too. No wonder she sacked it off within a day. On the whole I found Murrant's whole Soccer AM #bantz grating but that was pretty easily resolved by just not following his personal account on Twitter.

Overall the Season ticket campaign and fan survey seemed to work really well and I think that while by no means perfect the commercial side of things has been showing an definite improvement. I'm curious to see if he turns up at another club down south soon and whether we bring someone else in for that role.

Edited October 3, 2017 by capt_oats

[thisGRAEME]

23 hours ago, capt_oats said:

The level of grief the poor lassie who was eventually announced got from the utter maniacs in our fanbase was unreal too.

I was on holiday I think and totally missed this, what happened?

Murrant still comes across as an absolute creep, tbh;

https://twitter.com/ryanmurrant/status/915553342545424384

 

[well fan for life]

11 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

I was on holiday I think and totally missed this, what happened?

Murrant still comes across as an absolute creep, tbh;

https://twitter.com/ryanmurrant/status/915553342545424384

 

At 12 o'clock midday we had appointed an SLO. By 12.15 the usual set of absolute mile outs had been hounding the decision on social media and she told them to shove it. Fair enough IMO. 

If I remember him on the MFC Podcast was he not saying that the reasoning behind it being a voluntary rather than paid position is that they wanted the person to be "impartial" as they weren't on the club's payroll. Which, in my honest opinion, is absolute horseshit and a complete brassneck on the club to expect that amount of effort for no real gain other than a ticket & an occasional parking space. 

[YassinMoutaouakil]

I assume Murray was also responsible for this utterly sickening attempt at banter.

 

Aside from the fucking emojis, it genuinely enraged me that somebody thought a desperate attempt at retweets and acknowledgement from some no-mark English championship journeyman was acceptable. Toe curling stuff.

[well fan for life]

Just now, YassinMoutaouakil said:

I assume Murray was also responsible for this utterly sickening attempt at banter.

 

Aside from the fucking emojis, it genuinely enraged me that somebody thought a desperate attempt at retweets and acknowledgement from some no-mark English championship journeyman was acceptable. Toe curling stuff.

Not sure who it was previously who said it, but his attempts to get LADBANTZ into Scottish football was absolutely piss boiling.

[Swello]

I'm sure there was also a shite attempt to wind up accies with some #bantz last season that felt totally out of place on the club twitter account.....

Edited October 4, 2017 by Swello

[dezz]

To be fair to him there seems to have been some decent stuff that has came out of the survey that is being taken on board, the season ticket campaign was successful and we got some decent press coverage from the mascot stuff...but I agree that the dripping with emoji attempts at #Bantz was fucking cringeworthy.

Interested to see if we try and bring in someone else for the role or if we've mined enough info and know how from him that someone already at the club can take on the job?