Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[camer0n_mcd]

That's 11 games without a win now. Very few managers can survive runs like that. Anything but a win on Tuesday and Kettlewell has got to go 

[D-Fens Foster]

22 minutes ago, Desp said:

Ending a game with 10 men, and your central midfield pairing is Spittal & Wilkinson. 

Wee Davor must be absolutely howling. 

Lose on Tuesday and Kettlewell should be punted. 

Totally agree. I was behind Kettlewell but things are clearly not working. I was in Paisley the day i first seen Davor and i still stand by what i said that day, i’ve never seen a player so out their league it was embarrassing  

[ropy]

Haven’t lost a game in 3 weeks.

[Ron Aldo]

Kettlewell must be running our social media. There's no other way of justifying this utter pish. 

[Quatermass]

Pretty ‘spectacular’ comeback draws against County, St Johnstone, Celtic and now Dundee have papered over some pretty big cracks. On one hand you can say there is a fighting spirit in the team and we scrap to the end. The other side of the argument is we are defensively weak and all to easy, and quickly, fall behind in games.

Even if County beat us on Tuesday, Kettlewell will take charge against St Johnstone next Sat. For me it’s over but who is calling the shots at the Club? Can they be arsed? Just seems like too much hassle for folk at this time of year. It arguably shouldn’t have gotten this far. After the St Mirren game is my prediction for a change. The next game after that is Rangers when we will be faced with a Clarkson/Foster dream team until a new guy is in for Livi and the window.

No less than two wins out of the next three can save him.

[eliphas]

22 minutes ago, Ron Aldo said:

Kettlewell must be running our social media. There's no other way of justifying this utter pish. 

It's factually accurate I guess. 

[well fan for life]

12 minutes ago, Quatermass said:

Pretty ‘spectacular’ comeback draws against County, St Johnstone, Celtic and now Dundee have papered over some pretty big cracks. On one hand you can say there is a fighting spirit in the team and we scrap to the end. The other side of the argument is we are defensively weak and all to easy, and quickly, fall behind in games.

Even if County beat us on Tuesday, Kettlewell will take charge against St Johnstone next Sat. For me it’s over but who is calling the shots at the Club? Can they be arsed? Just seems like too much hassle for folk at this time of year. It arguably shouldn’t have gotten this far. After the St Mirren game is my prediction for a change. The next game after that is Rangers when we will be faced with a Clarkson/Foster dream team until a new guy is in for Livi and the window.

No less than two wins out of the next three can save him.

Agree with most of this. I've said before that the club is a mess from top to bottom. Burrows left, we put Derek Weir in charge as an "interim" but have clearly failed to attract anyone to take the job. So now Weir is the guy in charge but is hardly likely to do anything radical/long term because he clearly has no interest in taking up the post permanently. 

There's goals in this team but the defence is atrocious. We went 1-0 up then got the tent & campfire out in our own 18 yard box when we have shown all season that we are not good enough to defend consistently. It's fair enough to do it at Parkhead but at home to Dundee is grim. 

[Swello]

32 minutes ago, Quatermass said:

pretty ‘spectacular’ comeback draws against County, St Johnstone, Celtic and now Dundee have papered over some pretty big cracks.

I know what you're saying and agree with your post but I think in order to paper over the cracks, you need to be winning some of these. Scoring 2's and 3's at home without winning is classic relegation stuff and the cracks are really visible to everyone.

Dundee played well today - but the amount of space and the lack of any pressure on the ball was really bizarre - it was like watching us playing a lower division side in the LC groups. Games like this in our league are meant to be closely contested but Dundee strolled that today, will not get such an easy time of it on the road this season and should be raging that they didn't get 3 points.

I'm not one for wanting folk sacked but any criticism we had about Hammell - less than 12 fucking months ago - are equally valid right now. The defence is a genuine shambles, the team look poorly prepared and are often playing in a shape that clearly isn't working and there is no improvement week after week. 

Last minute jumps are great and always will be but we can't continue like this.

[well fan for life]

I've just watched Sportscene and here's my opinion.

Dan Casey is fucking shite.

[ropy]

With Butcher sitting just in front of the back 5 we essentially had 2 midfielders covering the pitch which allowed Dundee to play through them to just outside our 18 yard line.

Someone jumped up in front of me as Obika took his shot (premature celebration) but the near post would have been the quickest route to goal surely.

We seem to finish games attacking with Gent on the park, maybe try it earlier, like 3 o’clock.

We are 4th top goal scorers now, need to sort the defence out.

Firing the ball out wide for Biereth means he may occasionally win the foot race and bear down on goal but more likely he will end up trying to get a ball into the box.  I would be more confident of a goal if he was in the box waiting to receive the ball.

[Molotov]

@Muzz1886 what is your current opinion on Kettlewell?

Personally I think Motherwell have been extremely unlucky in a number of games. 

A new manager “bounce” could be the best option leading into the January shutdown and transfer window. 

[Swello]

3 hours ago, Desp said:

Wee Davor must be absolutely howling. 

He really must be in Danzaki territory as Butcher was a 2/10 at best today - way off it - and still he wasn't seen as an option. 

[Handsome_Devil]

32 minutes ago, Swello said:

I know what you're saying and agree with your post but I think in order to paper over the cracks, you need to be winning some of these. Scoring 2's and 3's at home without winning is classic relegation stuff and the cracks are really visible to everyone.

Dundee played well today - but the amount of space and the lack of any pressure on the ball was really bizarre - it was like watching us playing a lower division side in the LC groups. Games like this in our league are meant to be closely contested but Dundee strolled that today, will not get such an easy time of it on the road this season and should be raging that they didn't get 3 points.

I'm not one for wanting folk sacked but any criticism we had about Hammell - less than 12 fucking months ago - are equally valid right now. The defence is a genuine shambles, the team look poorly prepared and are often playing in a shape that clearly isn't working and there is no improvement week after week. 

Last minute jumps are great and always will be but we can't continue like this.

Dundee played well enough but at 2-2 the score was entirely fair. Clearly we need to fix the defence but for the love of all that is holy start Gent on the left against County.

I'm not against 3-5-2, especially when we have little alternative, but we're turning off over and over again. 

Remarkably we never look like scoring but score a bucket load, but until we go back to being even remotely professional at the back we're in deep, deep trouble.

I never like saying single games have to be won but rather group them together. Five points or more from Dundee to St Johnstone would be fine, four would just about keep us ok...so if there's no win in the next two it's time to try for a caretaker bounce against st Mirren and a new permanent boss in by Livingston.

[Quatermass]

14 minutes ago, Swello said:

I know what you're saying and agree with your post but I think in order to paper over the cracks, you need to be winning some of these. Scoring 2's and 3's at home without winning is classic relegation stuff and the cracks are really visible to everyone.

Dundee played well today - but the amount of space and the lack of any pressure on the ball was really bizarre - it was like watching us playing a lower division side in the LC groups. Games like this in our league are meant to be closely contested but Dundee strolled that today, will not get such an easy time of it on the road this season and should be raging that they didn't get 3 points.

I'm not one for wanting folk sacked but any criticism we had about Hammell - less than 12 fucking months ago - are equally valid right now. The defence is a genuine shambles, the team look poorly prepared and are often playing in a shape that clearly isn't working and there is no improvement week after week. 

Last minute jumps are great and always will be but we can't continue like this.

I agree with a lot of what you say. Whilst Dundee and Motherwell walked away with a point each today, the difference in mood between those fans left at the end would have been quite different. They threw it away big style and folk travelling North have every right to feel gutted. It will feel like a loss.

We snatched an unexpected point from the jaws of defeat for the fourth time in recent memory and it feels a bit better than a draw due to us being utterly resigned to defeat.

I’d say far less than half the home fans that were in the ground at the start of the game watched the unlikely comeback. That also speaks volumes especially when it hasn’t exactly been a rare occurrence of late. The fans are fed up. Yet another long winless streak to endure.

These small ‘boosts’ are what has ultimately saved him…….or been a good excuse for those who need to step up to put it off.

It’s the draws that drag you down. If you can turn a few into wins you can be comfortably out of danger. We are in bother no question. Relegation has felt like an inevitability for a few seasons. Last season was a miracle in respect to how late we made the change, who stepped in and what the results were. I think that may have bought Kettlewell a bit of loyalty from the higher ups as well. However, it’s a results business and he is failing. At this point badly.

Kettlewell’s slump has started earlier in the season than Hammell’s. We should have more time to try and put it right. I don’t think we’ll pull off a last season great escape. A 10th place finish or 11th and a punt at, potentially, Raith could be best case scenario stuff.

Is this it for the forseeable until we are in the top league with all the City sides and we just find ourselves as the out and out worst team one year? Possibly. No reason why we should be above it. Concerning times for sure.

[ropy]

Our xG was less than 1 but we scored 3?

[camer0n_mcd]

2 minutes ago, ropy said:

Our xG was less than 1 but we scored 3?

xG always has and will be a lot of shite

[Stevie Kirk]

I think it’s fair to say that SK is on borrowed time. I also think that we have had no luck with injuries this season which has exposed our club decision to radically cut the playing squad. 
 

Our squad has no depth other than the forward line and I think that is on SK in terms of how he has spent the money. Overall though we have cut the squad too radically and the fault for that lies with the board.

 

As to the performances we have been rotten in the first half of almost every game. This to me has to be a mentality problem and the players have to share the blame here , it’s not all on SK.

 

But we aren’t cut adrift , far from it and a couple of wins will see us climb the league. It’s just difficult to see where the wins will come from at the moment as we are incapable of keeping the back door shut.

‘

My main concern at the moment is our inability to keep possession especially in the opposition half - it’s killing us and we are too easy to transition against and gift chances and goals. Until we can find a way to retain good safe ( and quick) possession in the final third we are going to struggle in every game we play. For me we need SOD out of the team (as he is the worst offender in terms of gifting the ball away) and  Spencer on the right. If Gent isn’t good enough send him back to Blackburn . Souare will be away so we need two left backs , one as a sure starter. 
 

It looks like the Davor signing is also a dud so let’s try and get him out the door in January and get another two decent midfielders in. IMO Harry Paton is a squad player at best and we are having to start him because of our lack of depth. 
 

However the bottom line is that we have had two home league wins all season and the fans are scunnered watching the same crap every second Saturday. If we get to 5pm on the 16th with no wins the managers position is untenable regardless. 

[ropy]

Is there any quick way of seeing what the table would look like if games started at 90 minutes?

[capt_oats]

I've nothing against Kettlewell (although I've always thought he's brought a supply teacher sort of energy) and I've sympathy with him in so much as the job he had this season was to cut the squad numbers and reduce the budget - which he did very well.

I suppose the problem that he has (aside from the whole not winning games of football thing) is that in the opening stages of the season we were actually playing well in games and from that POV that's his benchmark - the form we showed last season when he picked up Hammell's mess was clearly fucking unsustainable but we've gone from looking absolutely capable with this group of players to now just chucking c***s on with 15 mins to go in the hope they do something and salvage a point.

I mean, we've a laddie up front with 5 goals in 8 games who's averaging almost a goal every 90 mins but defensively look like we couldn't collectively keep weans out a close - which is frustrating.

Edited December 2, 2023 by capt_oats

[welldaft]

The 1st Dundee goal was utterly avoidable and embarrassing. Was it not the same wee midget that scored an identical goal v us at Dens Park. He is a great wee player by the way. But he is 5ft2” if that and that is two headed goals he has against us.

Yet another bizarre game today. We looked good until we scored and then sat back and watched Dundee entirely boss proceedings. That Beck is a very good player. 

What I will say (again) is this is a world away from the last throes of the Hammell reign. I get fans are frustrated but that is multiple games we have not chucked it and got draws from being behind. 

I am not a Kettlewell fan boy at all and I did wonder why at 2-2 and us down to ten men he threw on another forward. Surely you accept we are up against it and out on another defender or midfielder. All that said Oli Shaw did set up Wilkinson to score the equaliser. 

I accept that we probably had to cut back the playing budget. I guess another £1m loss is not very palatable or sustainable but Ketts is probably working with the smallest squad in many years. He literally has no choice but to play 11 fit and available players. Is that his fault or the fault of the Board ? 

As long as we don’t get relegated this year then hopefully we can regroup and rebuild.