Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[redstarcvedza]

23 minutes ago, Neil86 said:

noticed he has been getting some game time in the last few weeks, and recorded an assist, so I think a move for him is quite unlikely.

 

Matty Penney however...

Think 2 strikers are the priority. Halliday can play in front of Gent until Nicolson up to speed 

[capt_oats]

10 hours ago, rowsdower said:

The range of injuries, and how they were caused, makes it hard for me to blanket blame one thing.  It's a mixture of bad tackles in games, shite plastic pitches, breaking shit in training. I think when Les Hutch was involved he talked about eliminating muscular injuries as that was a concern. You can't do much about breaks and serious impact injuries, but surely we could do more to prevent strains and the like?

I mentioned Hutchison's comments about our medical bills prior to him getting involved the other week. His view was that we were spending a lot of money on treating preventable injuries which led to the strength and conditioning department being set up.

Again, I don't know if it's similar to Weir and McMahon's view on the media department or not but we created various additional roles on Alexander's watch: Tom Jones - now at Stoke and Callum Davidson - who moved to Wigan after us, were both 'Sports Therapist' and 'Performance Therapist' respectively. However presumably their contracts were up at the end of last season and they don't seem to have been replaced (the roles aren't showing on the 'Staff' tab on the official anyway).

I mean, prior to the Alexander restructure we were running with Andy Boles handling S&C so I can understand why there may be a view that investing in additional support staff is superfluous spending.

Having said that, if our budgeting is forcing the recruitment model into a place where we're having to focus on the risk/reward type of signings @crazylegsjoe_mfc mentions (eg: players who become available to us specifically because they have/had injury doubts) then it feels like a false economy to sign injury risk players but not have a support system in place to minimise injury. Especially if the instruction the manager is being given is to run with a small squad.

Modern fitba' is an environment where the turnaround between seasons is becoming shorter but players (in general not just Motherwell) are being asked to perform at the same - if not increased - intensity and people are wondering why we're seeing more injuries?

Given the nature of the injuries we've seen I don't think you can or should necessarily level criticism at coaching/staff etc but equally I'd hope someone in a senior role at the club is at least looking at the number of injuries and asking the question "what the f**k is going on and is it preventable?" rather than just shrugging their shoulders and putting it down to bad luck.

Edited January 26 by capt_oats

[Swello]

On 23/01/2024 at 23:10, Swello said:

With this and Lennon Miller being back, I'm almost feeling slightly optimistic

Since the heady days of Tuesday, I can confirm that I'm no longer feeling optimistic for this fucking w**k of a season

 

[Casagolda]

2 hours ago, welldaft said:

I assume Montgomery injury happened whilst he was in the presser or after as he was not crying which you would forgive him for doing.

He was in training yesterday so you’d have to assume that’s when it happened.

While he might have pulled up, I’m not sure where the 3 months lay-off part comes from. Surely you’d require some sort of scan to asses the damage and get that sort of diagnosis- which I doubt would happen the same afternoon. 

Fingers crossed it’s not as severe as being reported. 

[Mr Hahn]

30 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

 

Modern fitba' is an environment where the turnaround between seasons is becoming shorter but players (in general not just Motherwell) are being asked to perform at the same if not increased intensity and people are wondering why we're seeing more injuries?

Given the nature of the injuries we've seen I don't think you can necessarily level criticism at coaching/staff etc but equally I'd hope someone in a senior role at the club is at least looking at the number of injuries and asking the question "what the f**k is going on and is it preventable?" rather than just shrugging their shoulders and putting it down to bad luck.

This would be my take as well. Wouldn't be pointing fingers at any of the staff but would absolutely expect someone to be looking twice at this situation and wondering if there's something more/different we should be doing here. If there isn't anything and it genuinely does seem to be bad luck, fine. But definitely feels like something worth further investigation.

I know it wasn't universally popular but one of the reasons I was always in favour of the winter break was I felt it was a bit of leveller for the clubs our size. As you mention the gap between seasons becoming shorter, players being asked to play with increased intensity, pitches are better so the game is faster (plastic abominations aside although they present their own injury risk). The bigger budget clubs with considerably larger squads of first team players are better prepared to cope with game after game whereas we've looked pretty ragged as the injuries have grown. Always felt the winter break was an opportunity for us to get some of our players rested and get some of the injured ones back (good chance Miller will be available for games he might not have for example) that the bigger clubs maybe didn't need.

[CoF]

13 minutes ago, Mr Hahn said:

Wouldn't be pointing fingers at any of the staff but would absolutely expect someone to be looking twice at this situation and wondering if there's something more/different we should be doing here.

I’m sure we’ve been here before. I’ve got a vague recollection of Robinson saying in a press conference that they’ve had external folk in to analyse training, recovery, conditioning etc etc because we were picking up so many injuries.  I might be talking shite but I’m sure they couldn’t identify any specific reason for it.  

[OhWell]

Our January 2024...

[Handsome_Devil]

14 minutes ago, CoF said:

I’m sure we’ve been here before. I’ve got a vague recollection of Robinson saying in a press conference that they’ve had external folk in to analyse training, recovery, conditioning etc etc because we were picking up so many injuries.  I might be talking shite but I’m sure they couldn’t identify any specific reason for it.  

We absolutely have...I remember McGhee looking at things in summer 2007, making adjustments and our non-impact injuries vanished almost overnight.

You wonder if it's one of these eternal circles, you have injuries so invest in pre-hab conditioning, you don't have injuries so cut back to bring in another couple of players, get injuries so invest...

[JamesP_81]

I'm absolutely no expert in physical training and don't want to suggest that we've ploughed loads of money into professionals who are looking at the big picture but missing small details, but does anyone know if at the start of our training sessions the players ,you know, warm up ? Even doing some stretches while Ketts gives them the brief overview of his goals for that days session should give them a good hour/hour and a half to get their muscles in condition . 

[eliphas]

Bet you Monty isn't even injured.

[capt_oats]

Here's wee Monty's time at Fleetwood in the first half of the season:

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/adam-montgomery/leistungsdaten/spieler/757272

I guess what I'm saying is that there was probably a chance this might happen...

Edited January 26 by capt_oats

[Handsome_Devil]

Now being reported by the Sun too fwiw.

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, Mr Hahn said:

This would be my take as well. Wouldn't be pointing fingers at any of the staff but would absolutely expect someone to be looking twice at this situation and wondering if there's something more/different we should be doing here. If there isn't anything and it genuinely does seem to be bad luck, fine. But definitely feels like something worth further investigation.

I know it wasn't universally popular but one of the reasons I was always in favour of the winter break was I felt it was a bit of leveller for the clubs our size. As you mention the gap between seasons becoming shorter, players being asked to play with increased intensity, pitches are better so the game is faster (plastic abominations aside although they present their own injury risk). The bigger budget clubs with considerably larger squads of first team players are better prepared to cope with game after game whereas we've looked pretty ragged as the injuries have grown. Always felt the winter break was an opportunity for us to get some of our players rested and get some of the injured ones back (good chance Miller will be available for games he might not have for example) that the bigger clubs maybe didn't need.

Aye, it's not a popular opinion and there no doubt that cramming a bunch of games into December to have a break in January is probably counter-intuitive. At worst, the optics are a bit daft.

That said, I've always felt that the winter break has been good for us and whether it's a directly contributing factor or not the fact that we generally seem to have seen an uptick in form after the January break is evidence of that to some degree.

Dunno, to me, for a club our size the break allows us to recruit, bed in players, get players back from injury and just generally reset without games making the whole thing a bit chaotic has always, objectively, seemed beneficial.

[MurrayWell]

Feel for Montgomery, what a ridiculous amount of injuries we're getting this season, particularly in training. 

Is Obika taking the warm ups or something?! 

[dezz]

Montgomery's injury is being reported by The Herald now too. What a kick in the stones! The Montgomery/Gent left hand side was actually giving me a bit of optimism for the second half of the season. 

Shame for the guy, but hopefully we can punt him back to Celtic and get straight onto the blower to Hull and get James Furlong back up the road. 

[eliphas]

55 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Now being reported by the Sun too fwiw.

Sake

 

[well fan for life]

1 hour ago, capt_oats said:

Here's wee Monty's time at Fleetwood in the first half of the season:

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/adam-montgomery/leistungsdaten/spieler/757272

I guess what I'm saying is that there was probably a chance this might happen...

So we've signed Souare, Obika & Montgomery who all have these injury histories and are shocked when it turns out they're injured. 

What the f**k is our recruitment department up to man. 

[Allroy for Prez]

11 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

So we've signed Souare, Obika & Montgomery who all have these injury histories and are shocked when it turns out they're injured. 

What the f**k is our recruitment department up to man. 

I forgot that Montgomery arrived with a bit of an injury history so I suppose this isn’t too much of a surprise really. 

[capt_oats]

4 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

So we've signed Souare, Obika & Montgomery who all have these injury histories and are shocked when it turns out they're injured. 

What the f**k is our recruitment department up to man. 

To Devils Advocate:

I'd guess that from reading between the lines on McMahon's interview Souaré was never meant to be a main guy in so much as we seemed to place many (if not all) our eggs in the 'we're re-signing' James Furlong basket which then got blown up by Brighton just deciding to sell him to Hull instead leaving us to scramble and bring in Georgie instead who maybe isn't exactly 1:1 with Furlong.

Obika - he was already in the building and again, reading between the lines - was probably willing to take the deal and squad role that Mandron wasn't

With Montgomery, I'd guess we took Celtic on their word if they've said 'yeah, he's fit lads'. Who knows, maybe that was reflected in whatever % of his wage we've been asked to contribute and you weigh up that he's young but had an injury which you're being told he's recovered and it maybe allows you a bit more budget to put towards a new centre forward or whatever.

Like I get it but I think it probably all comes down to the fact that Kettlewell has been told to work to the budget that he's been given and it's pushing us towards these risk/reward deals.

[capt_oats]

Cribbing this from an old post but it's interesting to compare how many players we've signed recently had known injury issues.

I could be wrong but of the Alexander signings only Ojala fits that bracket for me.

Hammell obviously just phoned up Moult and Aarons to ask if they wanted a game and but Obika had missed most of the season with Morecambe with a hamstring (but again, there's context for how his signing came about).

Maybe it's recency bias but it definitely feels like we've been leaning far more heavily on the gamble that the player stays fit this season than others.

On 12/12/2023 at 17:18, capt_oats said:

NICK DAWS

21/22
Connor Shields,  Justin Amaluzor, Kaiyne Woolery, Kevin Van Veen, Liam Kelly, Darragh O'Connor, Mich'el Parker, Callum Slattery, Juhani Ojala, Sean Goss, Sondre Solholm Johansen, Ross Tierney, Jordan Roberts (loan/loan made permanent), Victor Nirennold, Joe Efford, Robbie Mahon, Liam Shaw (loan)
Total = 17

23/23 (Summer)
Paul McGinn, Blair Spittal, Josh Morris, Aston Oxborough
Total = 4

Alexander total signed: 29

Hammell:
22/23:
Stuart McKinstry (loan), Matt Penney (loan), Rolando Aarons (loan), Louis Moult (loan), Shane Blaney, Ollie Crankshaw (loan), Mikael Mandron, Riku Danzaki, Jack Aitchison, James Furlong (loan), Jonathan Obika (loan), Dan Casey, Calum Butcher 
Total = 13

Hammell total signed: 13

Kettlewell:
22/23 (post-January):
Harry Paton
Total = 1

23/24 (to date):
Jonathan Obika, Conor Wilkinson, Pape Soaré, Davor Zdravkovski, Theo Bair, Mika Biereth (loan), Brodie Spencer (loan), Oli Shaw (loan), Georgie Gent (loan),
(Winter)
Callan Elliot, Sam Nicholson, Adam Montgomery (loan), Andy Halliday (loan)
Total = 13

Kettlewell total signed to date: 14

To add, so it's not 3 posts in a row from me...

Oh...

Edited January 26 by capt_oats