Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[camer0n_mcd]

He should have been gone weeks ago. We're just delaying the inevitable by giving him the Livi game 

[ropy]

So you’re saying we have a chance? 

[Allroy for Prez]

Agree with the above, winning the Livi game, and it’s a massive if, proves nothing really unless you then go on an above average run from there on in. 

He should’ve/could’ve went at any point after the last 6/7 games and with zero complaints. Ross County away being a particularly opportune moment. 

I suspect the board were hoping upon hope he could turn it round but I’m sure someone posted recently that managers who don’t win for 15 + games don’t turn it around. 

As I stands we’ve left it far too late. I wouldn’t trust him in the January window after the summer dealings. 

Do we not have umpteen players out of contract in the summer? Almost certainly none of them will be kept on, or that I’d even want to keep on, especially in the event of relegation, so they won’t be here to deal with the fall out. 

I honestly don’t know what we do or how we get out of it this season. 
 

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

The way we are being run at the moment, it wouldn't suprise that much me if we dipped into our reserves and pushed the boat out to get KVV in, paying 5k a week, for him to score about 4 goals in 18 games with us ending up in the bottom two because our defence and midfield are lacking. I also just get the impression that signing him with the pressure of being the great hope to save our season is only going to end badly. 

The first thing for me that we need to address in January is the balance of the squad. Against Rangers we had 3 weans and 4 strikers taking up 7/9 seats on the bench. Which obviously leads to things like Wilkinson coming on in midfield.

I'd obviously expect to see Souaré go. I saw @capt_oatssuggesting that we may offer him a short term deal, but in the summer we only offered Carroll "facilities" rather than a contract - so hopefully that means we've turned a corner in our thinking there.

I don't know how much of "one in, one out" we'll need to see. If I'm looking at candidates for the exit door, as I said, strikers are our main area of surplus. No one is coming in for Obika and I'd imagine Bair would stay put. If there's a break clause for Shaw I'd be activating it and I reckon Wilkinson is the type of player - a few decent, important goals but somewhat out the picture - that an agent could find a new home for.

Top of my shopping list would be a centre back - be it fitness, form or ability, neither Mugabi nor Butcher have done it so far this season - and players who can play out wide to give us an option to change the shape. Not that I think quality in those areas, in our price range is readily floating about in January.

 

[Oh Well]

2 hours ago, capt_oats said:

I wouldn't be be surprised if we offered Souaré a Tanner-style deal to cover him until he's fit again - which is fine although I'm sure certain elements of our support would get wildly bent out of shape about it. Whether he'd choose take that or not I'm not sure but it'd be in keeping with our general position of not cutting anyone loose who isn't fit and sustained their injury on our watch.

Shaw's loan is for the season (per the announcement on the official) regardless of whether there's a break clause or not I'd be surprised if Kettlewell would send him back. Ketts feels like the sort of person who's not going to admit he's fucked it so will just double down on him - he signed him for County and has backed him when he brought him here (albeit it was after both Biereth and Wilko picked up their injuries).

As you mentioned the other day Shaw is our most used substitute and has been getting chucked on ahead of a player (Wilkinson) who has actually scored some fucking goals.

I'm maybe being unfair but I get the impression that the likes of Paton and Shaw are very much Kettlewell's guys.

Anyway, I brought this up when Matty Connelly went out on loan but our First Team squad (as it stands) is currently 21 bodies (with 3 long term injuries - Souaré, Casey, Miller) which means we're picking from a pool of 18 players and we've essentially been chucking 3 or 4 actual school children on the bench every week, on the regular.

I suppose it's a legitimate question as to whether we actually need to be moving folk out.

Are the 3 or 4 actual schoolchildren not the same age as Miller?

 

[Swello]

I love the romance of the returning hero as much as (more than) most - but unless KVV can do a turn in defence/has bought goalkeeping gloves or is a pacy wide man - I'm not convinced that even he would change much at the moment.

I think we've got a genuinely excellent main striker in the building already (someone who would be seen as a brilliant No9 had be been in one of our better teams) - but we don't create very much for him, so it's a bit of a moot point.

If we've got some money to spend, spend it where we need it most in a relegation battle.

Spoiler

Or just sign KVV and hope for the best

 

[capt_oats]

33 minutes ago, Oh Well said:

Are the 3 or 4 actual schoolchildren not the same age as Miller?

 

I mean, Lennon Miller is also of school age no?

[Swello]

Game aff.

[ropy]

At least Livingston won’t be the 17th game without a win.

[Blink182]

1 hour ago, ropy said:

At least Livingston won’t be the 17th game without a win.

Is that the technicality that the board will run with if we get beat by Livi?

Wasn't the 17th game so on we go.

 

I joke obviously as I don't think a even a loss to Livi will see him gone. 

[Gianfranco]

8 hours ago, capt_oats said:

I suppose it's a legitimate question as to whether we actually need to be moving folk out.

I feel we’ve got one striker too many. Massive transfer window ahead anyhoo. 
 

Recently there has pretty much just been striker options on the bench and a bunch of kids we know nothing about. 

Edited December 27, 2023 by Gianfranco

[Handsome_Devil]

Watched Livingston tonight - two rotten teams obviously but they in particular look totally devoid of confidence in attack. They missed an absolute gimmie to win it with the last kick.

Will be some laugh when it's 0-2 after 20 minutes on Saturday.

[ropy]

So we have games in hand now?

[ropy]

St Mirren are coming down the league towards us.

[welldaft]

If we win v Livi I am all for giving him the opportunity to get the window and bring in a couple of players and then reset. Ketts did a very decent job for us last season. Even started this season well. Plus I feel he is playing with hands tied behind his back with a much reduced budget.

I think he has been given time and in many of the recent games the efforts of the players in scoring all those last gasp goals shows they have not given up playing for him. 

His remit is now to avoid relegation and possibly was that given the paltry funds available to him. 

All that said a defeat on Saturday and the game should be over. He will possibly get the Hibs game as it is so close but anything less than 3 points and that should be that. 

 

[welldaft]

6 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Watched Livingston tonight - two rotten teams obviously but they in particular look totally devoid of confidence in attack. They missed an absolute gimmie to win it with the last kick.

Will be some laugh when it's 0-2 after 20 minutes on Saturday.

The only team both seem able to score against is us. Maybe we are the worst team in the league . 

 

[capt_oats]

43 minutes ago, Gianfranco said:

I feel we’ve got one striker too many. Massive transfer window ahead anyhoo. 

Recently there has pretty much just been striker options on the bench and a bunch of kids we know nothing about. 

I agree and disagree tbh.

I think everyone is on the same page that Shaw wouldn't be here if we hadn't seen injuries to Biereth, Wilko and (I for one am *stunned* this happened) Obika. So if that was the case we've an extra body there.

Even then, solely in a numbers sense, we've 5 strikers (of varying quality and...reliability) which is still kind of manageable given the plan at the start of the season would have been to play with 2 up.

You've 2 players for each position and one extra for cover. I assume in either situation Bair was intended to be either 4th or 5th choice.

However it definitely becomes overkill now that Kettlewell seems to have decided that the box midfield definitely works (and has the added benefit of him not having to drop Paton).

In that case we're clearly starting with Biereth so on the once in a blue moon scenario everyone's fit we're looking at 4 sat on their arse or we're doing objectively daft things like sticking Wilkinson in midfield. Which definitely isn't ideal.

A couple of folk have commented on Wilkinson having been unused recently - I wonder if Kettlewell's taken the huff at Wilko saying to the press that he'd never played in midfield before and had no idea what he was doing.

Edited December 27, 2023 by capt_oats

[ropy]

Wilkinson’s first gig in midfield was down to circumstances if I remember correctly, did he not come on as Paton got sent off?  But he was selected for that position up at Dingwall which was the nadir of the season so far. (Not that Nadir).

He got 10 minutes against St Johnstone, not sure what the plan was there.

Kettlewell gets a pass for the first event but just thinking it would work again for the County match showed a lack of management nous.

[ATLIS]

This game on Saturday seems like it's shaping up to be a real El Sackico classic

[Handsome_Devil]

7 hours ago, ATLIS said:

This game on Saturday seems like it's shaping up to be a real El Sackico classic

Would Livingston actually sack Martindale? There'd no doubt be a bounce but long-term I can't see an improvement. And there's no chance we'll do anything till after Hibs.

Since you're here, what on earth is going on with Nouble? You seem to have one of the potentially best attackers for our level then you neutralise him yourself by getting him to play wing-back.

I can't see past a draw on Saturday, we will certainly concede at least once and will probably only threaten when in panic mode chasing the equaliser.