Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Busta Nut]

22 minutes ago, Desp said:

This vote surely won't pass, will it?

Effectively we're asking WS Members (many of who pay in every month), who are members because they believe in the concept of Fan/WS Ownership, to vote for making the WS null & void? 

I might be giving the wider Motherwell fanbase too much credit here, but that's not going to happen, is it?

Get this deal binned and after that, I really hope those left on the WS Board (why the f**k hasn't Feeley resigned yet?) go to absolute town on the arseholes who tried to sell the club down the river.  Like both fucking barrels on them. 

This was my hope, folk who believe in the WS would surely not vote for it's downfall. Then three of the clowns who head the thing voted for it to fail.

I think the folk in favour of this, won't be members as a lot of them seem to think the WS has been a failure. Or are basing their thoughts on buzzwords that there is no concrete basis for. (connections, experience & contacts was one I saw)

As for Feeley, I've said it afore (and I am probably wrong) but he won't resign. He'll suddenly be in favour of and have belief in the WS. 

[steelmen]

I would really like someone from the executive board to come out and do a Q&A for why they unanimously accepted this deal or at least respond to the Society's statement.

what's the phrase about deafening and silence?

 

 

[Handsome_Devil]

Just now, steelmen said:

I would really like someone from the executive board to come out and do a Q&A for why they unanimously accepted this deal or at least respond to the Society's statement.

what's the phrase about deafening and silence?

 

 

I'm not feeling generous to them atm but it's been just over 48 hours. We can have bunfights here, and EB can jump in the mud if he likes, but the officials getting into a tit for tat on a daily basis isn't a good idea.

The first punches have been exchanged, back to the corners and prepare for the rounds to come...there will be enough of them.

[capt_oats]

5 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Again, hope you're right but some folk will be disillusioned with the Society, some will misunderstand the consequences blah blah. I very much doubt it'll be a landslide.

I'm inclined to agree with this and if I'm being honest I think the WS could very much do with making the consequences clear beyond the statement they put out on Monday and make sure they're getting through to members who aren't online.

I'm pretty sure McGarry would write up a piece etc (maybe he already has) there are plenty of 'Well friendly journos and broadcasters out there.

Ultimately a Tweet with a link or Block E and their bedsheets are only going to have a fairly limited reach and when it comes down to it people really do need reminded about the positives - especially after the Chairman and associates seem to have been doing their level best to Ratner the Football Club.

Them being complacent about this feels like a very bad idea.

[Busta Nut]

10 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

To boot oor Erik's bid into the sea and claim "look it's all shite" would also be against the will of the members.

 

Well, I think the offer is so shite it should have been booted like the others were, This does give the WS the chance to show how shite the offer is. Erik has went to the press and spoke to them about his wants etc, so I can see why the WS have let it come this far.  (and McMahon pushing for it)

It shows us how terrible it is.

[Handsome_Devil]

3 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Them being complacent about this feels like a very bad idea.

I don't get that impression thankfully, though I could be wrong. Certainly you make excellent points and I would encourage anyone who has the time and ability to help out to do so if they can.

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

4 hours ago, Vietnam91 said:

When the red mist descended when I re-read the EV thing, I missed the following:

Incorrect figure repeated again in what can only be described as double down of the finance jargon for tyre kicking the clubs value.

The reality is it's £475k if a multiple of 8 is used.

 

But before we go any deeper, lets look again at these debts that we'd be told are a weight round our neck.

WS £868k - no interest, no repayment schedule, held as a security against the club so a boiled plated safeguard, all in all as good a "debt" as you could hope to have.

Scot Gov COVID £3m over 20 years - no interest, yearly repayment schedule of approx 165k.

Our liquid assets exceed the total of our softest of all soft debts by £110k. We could be considered "debt free". 

 

If the valuation came from our board there needs to be serious questions if they were working in the best interests of shareholders.

Listing the club at half its market value. We are basically being asked to give away £2m.

 

Edit: closer to £4.0m when future Well Society contributions and loan cancellations are taken into account.

Edited June 12 by Jim McLean's Ghost

[well again]

52 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Can only hope you're right but given 63% voted to consider giving up control, I certainly have some nerves about it.

That was before they knew the facts behind the deal . I think many of the 63% will have changed their mind already now that the facts are out.

[Handsome_Devil]

10 minutes ago, well again said:

That was before they knew the facts behind the deal . I think many of the 63% will have changed their mind already now that the facts are out.

Fingers crossed.

Ignoring turnout for a second, if you assume none of the 37% changes their mind, roughly 1 in 4 the 63% need to be convinced.

That's not impossible but it's also tougher than an empty net...the nature of things means the club have a lot of sway and reach in this regard.

[dezz]

This was my position.

I'm a big advocate of the 'Well Society and have paid in a decent amount every month for god knows how many years, but I voted 'Yes' I would consider outside investment. It seemed short sighted to completely disregard any offer before we knew the details, but I was 99.9% sure I would vote down any proposal as an offer I personally would find acceptable probably isn't realistic in real life/the business world. 

I fully support the Society and would love nothing more than for them to put a successful business plan together to generate more revenue, but I do have my reservations - absolutely not with the newer board members - but more around how much more we as a fanbase/local community can realistically contribute. I'm willing to give them every opportunity to try though.

I cant deny that I am quite intrigued by how EB's skillset and connections could benefit the club, but there's not a chance in hell I'd vote for the current offer. 

Edited June 12 by dezz

[Richie]

1 hour ago, Desp said:

I know what you mean, but that was only to consider it.  If an unbelievable offer was on the table, then you'd understand people deciding to vote for it.

Voting for THIS offer is lunacy.  

Yeah, I mean I said I would consider it, but that's because I'm a pedant and would have to consider proposals before making a call on them either way.

[Handsome_Devil]

13 minutes ago, dezz said:

I fully support the Society and would love nothing more than for them to put a successful business plan together to generate more revenue, but I do have my reservations - absolutely not with the newer board members - but more around how much more we as a fanbase/local community can realistically contribute. I'm willing to give them every opportunity to try though.

The Society are not going to be producing masses of cash, it's just not going to happen for the reasons you say. But we're not trying to raise masses... getting 2,000 adults to contribute another fiver a month (plucked off the top of my head as an ambitious but realistic example) is £120k. In contrast, the club - with professional full-time staff and all kinds of resources and gimmicks available - could raise the same by finding an extra 300 ST sales in the East Stand.

It's why I always found the criticism of the Society's fundraising odd...it raised enough for a safety net and sure, could now pivot and do a bit more. But the stagnation, lack of operative direction and investment to increase revenue lies very much in the field of the outgoing chairman and the until recently empty CEO office for me.

Edited June 12 by Handsome_Devil

[Stevie Kirk]

3 hours ago, capt_oats said:

Oh...

The batphone in Robinsons office has just gone off …….

[capt_oats]

Tom Sparrow lads...

Edited June 12 by capt_oats

[camer0n_mcd]

1 minute ago, capt_oats said:

Tom Sparrow lads...

 

Straight to Wikipedia/Transfermarkt for this one.

[thisGRAEME]

What's a Tom Sparrow?

[Doctor Manhattan]

1 minute ago, thisGRAEME said:

What's a Tom Sparrow?

Who gives a Tom Tit?

[Doctor Manhattan]

6 minutes ago, camer0n_mcd said:

Straight to Wikipedia/Transfermarkt for this one.

I'm marginally more confident it's the Welsh lad rather than the Aussie Rules chap than I was when Hammell was in charge.

[Vietnam91]

This morning I wrote to the club Finance Director to ask for clarification on who calculated the Enterprise Value (EV) figure. I asked if it included our substantial liquid assets and if incorrect it needed retracted and an apology issued as some WS members may have used that in their early decision making process regarding the palatability of the offer. For clarity, it was not a figure arrived at by Erik and adopted by the club. While he has plenty of legitimate and robust questions to answer, this can't be levelled at his door.

I advised I was using the 2023 accounts (to 31/MAY/23) and published in February 2024.

Based on those and following the formula there did seem at first reading to be a discrepancy of approximately £4m. While there was mention in the press release of the outstanding debts, there was no reference of the liquid assets used to offset these.

This is the response. Form your own opinions.

Quote

In terms of your email, I can advise the valuation within the club statement is a valuation calculated by the club board and therefore to be clear without any influence or input from the Barmacks.  

As you would expect this valuation was only agreed by all of the club board after a robust and extensive exercise.

The club board remain completely satisfied with the methodology they used and the valuation in the statement and therefore they will not be making any statements to withdraw the valuation.

I would also note all business valuations are by their nature very subjective and indeed all business valuation methodologies can be interpreted to include / exclude certain items, particularly when you factor in an individual business’s particular operational model which is a crucial part of the process.

Furthermore, and I note this with the greatest respect as you are at a severe information disadvantage to the club board, but the figures you utilise in your calculation are over 12 months old whereas as you would expect the club board in its exercise utilised all its available current financial data.   

Your calculation also fails to incorporate the remaining reversal of the government loan notional interest credit – an admittedly highly complex technical accounting adjustment however it is a highly significant sum and absolutely crucial to the valuation of the club under any methodology which could be used.

Acknowledging I had no access to immediate figures, I conveyed I felt that £4m was a pretty large amount to be out by. I asked if the EV a year ago would be closer to £3.8m or £7.7m as those are figures I did have access to.

I asked if there was any way convey something to allay fears in what at first reading seems a drastically different EV derived using up to date numbers from the published accounts when at first reading it seemed to take no account (or reference) of our liquid assets.

From previous AGM’s I am aware the covid loan has unique and complex properties attached to it, but at its core it is an interest free loan. I recall the issues stemmed from how it was accounted for as a practice. If the difference was anything up to £500k I would not have asked further, but it’s sitting at just under £4m.

Quote

.... you surely cannot expect the Finance Director of the club to disclose to you highly confidential and sensitive club data in order for you to test the club’s valuation agrees with your own.

Again, form your own opinions.

 

Finally, I freely admit I have no accountancy background other than an elective taken at university for one semester. My skillset was limited to playing angry birds at 38,000ft and being a sounding board for ex-RAF guys moaning about their ex-wives and pension.

 

[accies1874]

There won't be a more random signing this summer. After we won the Challenge Cup and went to the pub with the players I honestly didn't know who he was until I saw the name on the back of his shirt. This was two months after he signed.