Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[Rorschach]

Afternoon - I'm going to post below a hypothetical scenario that a club such as Saints may currently find themselves in. I am not saying any of the below is true - I am just speculating.

As this is my first, and probably only, post I'll just say I am not employed by Saints ! I am not even a current season ticket holder - though I was once.

Hypothetical situation in response to a ticketed cup tie -

* the club (with support of police) requested that the time of kick off was moved from 17.30 - this was refused. TV I presume.

* due timing of kick off this was categorised as a Cat A game requiring full/maximum policing - not sure this might have been the case regardless.

* Policing and Stewarding costs have gone up since 01/01 - I think the number is £40ph for PC - I suggest the club may not be getting value for money for those costs especially at games such as this. This is agreed and a scenario where catering staff were abused recently might be quoted where initially Police did not respond and once they did they asked/told the catering staff to announce to the 50+ waiting fans/abusers the kiosk would be shut. They refused to do it themselves. The club raised this afterwards. Basic Police Scotland aim is to get fans in and out with minimal fuss or interaction. This has long been the case and is unacceptable in my opinion.

* Home fan/season ticket attendance is considerably down when Old Firm visit - 38% and 44% on last two games - I am not surprised by this and the toxic atmosphere at these games does not help (see above).

* The gate money for a televised cup game may not be as high as thought under current deal. This is not helped by the money split that involves halving ticket sales and then the costs coming from Saints share only - as I understand it.

* Based on above 2 final points a decision might be made to relocate home fans to the West stand and the ticket price - there is an acceptance this is largely financial. I don't think there is a complete lack of understanding on how fans feel but it looks and feels rubbish regardless.

* The club may have asked to issue vouchers to inconvenienced fans off a future game or future season tickets. This may have been refused by Scottish Football authorities as cup games are under SFA. As an aside Saints got a warning about how ticketing for Galatasaray was done from UEFA (via SFA I think).

* The club may have wanted to issue a statement covering above and more immediately after the arrangements were announced but held off and may now be seeking legal advice before issuing. 

I have no insight if the above is true or not. And there may be more. But it does give a little bit of a different angle on things.

Personally I still think it is a poor decision. I went to many games in the past where we were relocated and I didn't think it was right then and I still don't. You need to take care of your own fans first and foremost. I hope if any of the above were true the club might be able to communicate that soon to at least help understanding. 

 

 

[RandomGuy.]

Hi Flax

[tree house tam]

f**k off Flax.

[Rorschach]

Yawn - predictable response - if not accurate.

I'll go back to saying nothing ...

[RandomGuy.]

1 minute ago, Rorschach said:

Yawn - predictable response - if not accurate.

I'll go back to saying nothing ...

If youre going to post stuff that only club employees will know (season ticket attendance/police costs etc.) then expect people to think youre a club employee.

If you are, Id suggest deleting the post, simply because slinking onto here and lying about not being an employee and trying to weasel a justification in would be absolutely brutal PR for you and if its gets discovered it would do far more harm than good.

Apologies if youre not though, and hopefully you keep posting thoughts, this is just a sensitive issue just now.

[Rorschach]

One final post - I have broken my own long standing rule of read but never post !

I am not a club employee - but to continue my hypothetical what if I mailed the club and took them up on their offer of a phone call ? Then thought I would share that ?

Regardless - as I said - I think it's a poor decision. I am no longer a season ticket holder but I went through many years of having to move - it should never happen.

[RandomGuy.]

2 minutes ago, Rorschach said:

I am not a club employee - but to continue my hypothetical what if I mailed the club and took them up on their offer of a phone call ? Then thought I would share that ?

Then you'd be the only person out of literally hundreds who've emailed in that got a phonecall back.

[Rorschach]

Can't really comment on that. I sent 2 mails and got offered a call. I said yes.

I'm done ...

[Theyellowbox]

45 minutes ago, Rorschach said:

Afternoon - I'm going to post below a hypothetical scenario that a club such as Saints may currently find themselves in. I am not saying any of the below is true - I am just speculating.

As this is my first, and probably only, post I'll just say I am not employed by Saints ! I am not even a current season ticket holder - though I was once.

Hypothetical situation in response to a ticketed cup tie -

* the club (with support of police) requested that the time of kick off was moved from 17.30 - this was refused. TV I presume.

* due timing of kick off this was categorised as a Cat A game requiring full/maximum policing - not sure this might have been the case regardless.

* Policing and Stewarding costs have gone up since 01/01 - I think the number is £40ph for PC - I suggest the club may not be getting value for money for those costs especially at games such as this. This is agreed and a scenario where catering staff were abused recently might be quoted where initially Police did not respond and once they did they asked/told the catering staff to announce to the 50+ waiting fans/abusers the kiosk would be shut. They refused to do it themselves. The club raised this afterwards. Basic Police Scotland aim is to get fans in and out with minimal fuss or interaction. This has long been the case and is unacceptable in my opinion.

* Home fan/season ticket attendance is considerably down when Old Firm visit - 38% and 44% on last two games - I am not surprised by this and the toxic atmosphere at these games does not help (see above).

* The gate money for a televised cup game may not be as high as thought under current deal. This is not helped by the money split that involves halving ticket sales and then the costs coming from Saints share only - as I understand it.

* Based on above 2 final points a decision might be made to relocate home fans to the West stand and the ticket price - there is an acceptance this is largely financial. I don't think there is a complete lack of understanding on how fans feel but it looks and feels rubbish regardless.

* The club may have asked to issue vouchers to inconvenienced fans off a future game or future season tickets. This may have been refused by Scottish Football authorities as cup games are under SFA. As an aside Saints got a warning about how ticketing for Galatasaray was done from UEFA (via SFA I think).

* The club may have wanted to issue a statement covering above and more immediately after the arrangements were announced but held off and may now be seeking legal advice before issuing. 

I have no insight if the above is true or not. And there may be more. But it does give a little bit of a different angle on things.

Personally I still think it is a poor decision. I went to many games in the past where we were relocated and I didn't think it was right then and I still don't. You need to take care of your own fans first and foremost. I hope if any of the above were true the club might be able to communicate that soon to at least help understanding. 

 

 

I this were the case, then; 1. it is even more frustrating as fans that the club are so easily pushed around by Rangers, SFA and Police Scotland. 2. The club is within its own gift to issue any kind of discount to season ticket holders for any game, regardless of whether the initial game is a cup tie or not (see the discounted additional tickets for league OF games), 3. If having Rangers or Celtic fans coming in the numbers they do is a serious police issue and causes risk to catering staff to that extent, then the club should restrict them to the same away allocation as most other teams. In particular, if the club is seeing 38% and 44% less ST holders turning up, then does that not indicate that they value Rangers and Cetics fans and they money over the core home fans, which is arguably worse than the £30/3 stands issue.

I think this issue has lifted the lid of frustration from most home fans around these fixtures. I'm not sure there is any reasoning the club can to to reassure the fans to be honest. 

Edited January 6, 2023 by Theyellowbox

[RandomGuy.]

4 minutes ago, Rorschach said:

Can't really comment on that. I sent 2 mails and got offered a call. I said yes.

I'm done ...

If youve spoken to the club and been given their explanation, why pretend in your original post that it was just a hypothetical guess at their reasoning?

Either way, whether youre an employee or a fan who won the golden ticket phone call, it seems obvious that the points youve written down is the clubs logic/excuses, most of which feel like things made up in a panic to shift the blame.

[SJFCtheTeamForMe]

@Rorschach

I won't/can't possibly comment on the stuff you're saying as I don't know anymore than anyone else. Some could be spot on. 

I'm just here speculating like football fans love to do. 

My frustration was partly about the decision but also the manner of it. 

Let's say some of the things you've said are true, why don't/didn't the club say those things publicly. They could do so in a manner that doesn't noise up the police/Rangers/SFA etc. 

Instead they've said nothing in detail at all and just given the fans the impression it's a big f**k you to them.

That club through my choice get a considerable amount of my income every year, year in year out. If they want others to continue doing that then the acknowledgement of the fans needs to be better. (You can tell I feel quite strongly about this )

Many of us can afford the one off £30 but I know many can't and football (and our club) is for everyone not just those with no children. I just want it to be as accessable as possible for as many as possible. 

In life, were currently seeing strikes left right and centre to resolve disputes around pay, mistreatment of employees, poor working conditions, employers trying to reduce benefits etc. If you're unhappy about something, regardless you've got to take action to get something done. Regardless who's to blame, the club, SFA or all of them.

If you hit the club & SFA where it hurts..... You just might see them learning their lesson. 

That's one thing that shouldn't be forgotten in all of this. The SFA will be very pleased about this arrangement as they take a good chunk of the money raised from the game I believe.

My feelings are fairly simple, if the club isn't willing to go public with their reasoning I'm unwilling to believe them. I don't want a secret phone call or a personal explanation. I just want our fans to be given the respectable explanation they're entitled to. 

-----

If the tv companies can overrule the police then we've definitely got a bigger problem.

Edited January 6, 2023 by SJFCtheTeamForMe

[PSJ.84]

Wonder if we’ll get a Friday 5pm statement this week…shitebags. 

[mizfit]

Well, that’s decided. The club has my season ticket money, and that’s it. They won’t get another penny from me this season. Nothing at the pie stalls (not that you can get something anyway), no programs, no 50/50 ticket and nothing at the Muirton Suite. 

[mizfit]

Just now, mizfit said:

Well, that’s decided. The club has my season ticket money, and that’s it. They won’t get another penny from me this season. Nothing at the pie stalls (not that you can get something anyway), no programs, no 50/50 ticket and nothing at the Muirton Suite. 

Okay I’m maybe being over the top with the Muirton. But I’m still pissed off.

[PSJ.84]

58 minutes ago, PSJ.84 said:

Wonder if we’ll get a Friday 5pm statement this week…shitebags. 

[SJFCtheTeamForMe]

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/sport/football/st-johnstone/4034266/jim-spence-st-johnstone-could-be-set-to-learn-how-much-is-too-much-for-fans-as-rangers-ticket-row-rumbles-on/

[RandomGuy.]

2 hours ago, PSJ.84 said:

Wonder if we’ll get a Friday 5pm statement this week…shitebags. 

Genuinely think theyre just waiting on us winning a game so they can release it to a happy support and hope it gets buried.

[mizfit]

Someone on the banter page has just had a call from Ian Flaherty. Statement expected this weekend or Monday apparently.

[The Saintee]

23 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Genuinely think theyre just waiting on us winning a game so they can release it to a happy support and hope it gets buried.

They might be waiting a while.

[Theyellowbox]

Aside from the PR disaster from the club re the stands and ticket prices, the statement said detailes for ST holders would be announced 'next week'. Well that is now over a week, so have the club just decided that as fans have said they aren't buying tickets anyway, they are just not going to bother?