Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[RandomGuy.]

IMO in a club that actually improves players he could end up a star. Sort out his passing and let him loose with protection behind him and you've a really good player. 

To me he's kind of suffered with us that we don't improve players anymore, and he's often played a restricted role that kills his main (off the ball) abilities.

[Fife Saint]

In all honesty i'd be wary of passing comment on any players leaving us from the last few years. 

[Kyle]

Not remotely arsed about Dan Phillips leaving to be honest. He's ok and suspect we'll miss him on the park, but I think that's a reflection of just how poor we now are rather than how impactful he's been. He wouldn't have gotten into the squad of the 2014 cup winning team, and probably not ahead of the dads army midfield in the double winning squad either. He's one of our best and quite evidently a bottom 6 player, sums it up quite nicely. 

[tree house tam]

In a better squad he'd have the leeway to improve, in the current Saints squad he's expected to be our main man. His last game tells you all you need to know about his skill level, great at turning players who get too close. Absolutely shite at 10 yard passes, shooting or clearances.  On Saturday there were about 3 times he attempted to clear and just hit the ball straight up in the air. That's a problem when it's in your own box.

The fact that he's actually one of our better players and most folk aren't bothered he's leaving says a lot for this squad.

[PauloPerth]

5 hours ago, PSJ.84 said:

Meh. Decent player, but without wanting to sound unfair, two goal contributions in 51 games is hardly a huge loss. 

This P&B St Johnstone thread invention that centre midfielders have to be judged by goal contributions is a bit bizarre to me when arguably our 3 best centre midfielders of the past 15 years have been Morris, Millar and McCann.

No huge surprise Phillips is leaving, I’d have liked him to stay personally as he’s probably been our best outfield player the past year. Would have liked to have seen him play with better players around him and in teams not set up just to defend, but all the best to him.

[Theyellowbox]

Phillips will be a miss only if the squad stays as crap as it is. Decent player looking better as he is surrounded by utter dross.

Think he'd be a good signing for Hearts/Aberdeen/Hibs to be fair.

Probably only leaves 3/4 players left in current squad that I'd be bothered if we lost.

[PSJ.84]

35 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

This P&B St Johnstone thread invention that centre midfielders have to be judged by goal contributions is a bit bizarre to me when arguably our 3 best centre midfielders of the past 15 years have been Morris, Millar and McCann.

Not quite how I meant it to come across - and agree it’s a lazy way to judge players - as it’s clearly not his game, like so many others in this squad. 

[RandomGuy.]

Tbf looking at top flight games...

McCann - 6 goals/4 assists in 71 games - Goal contribution every ~7 games

Morris - 3 goals/5 assists in 85 games - Goal contribution every ~10-11 games

Millar - 4 goals/15 assists in 239 games - Goal contribution every ~12-13 games

Phillips - 0 goals/2 assists in 48 games - Goal contribution every 24 games

 

I don't think complaints about Phillips are unfair. Nobody is surely expecting him to be bagging 5+ goals a season, but he needs to be chipping in with something. 

[Costanza]

Fair to make the point about not judging Phillips solely on goal contributions but if you compare him to the three listed there in other ways he’s not even close. Those three could take hold of a game, dictate the tempo and ensure we were always on top, I’ve never seen Phillips do that. It’s not his fault he’s in a terrible squad of players that have been poorly managed but as alluded to by somebody else the fact he’s arguably our best player says a lot. 

[double deluxe]

16 minutes ago, PSJ.84 said:

Not quite how I meant it to come across - and agree it’s a lazy way to judge players - as it’s clearly not his game, like so many others in this squad. 

That’s exactly how you just judged him though 

[PauloPerth]

6 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Tbf looking at top flight games...

McCann - 6 goals/4 assists in 71 games - Goal contribution every ~7 games

Morris - 3 goals/5 assists in 85 games - Goal contribution every ~10-11 games

Millar - 4 goals/15 assists in 239 games - Goal contribution every ~12-13 games

Phillips - 0 goals/2 assists in 48 games - Goal contribution every 24 games

 

I don't think complaints about Phillips are unfair. Nobody is surely expecting him to be bagging 5+ goals a season, but he needs to be chipping in with something. 

That’s a bit disingenuous though isn’t it?

Chris Millar was an attacking wide player in his first few seasons so his goal ratio was higher than when he moved to centre, where he gave us his best years but famously went ages without a goal before that winner against Utd late on (he scored 3 in his first 2 seasons then 1 in the next 6 or so).

Morris played a season or two in the division below where we were winning and scoring far more.

McCann did have a decent record with us goals wise but I wouldn’t say that was what his game is about. He’s usually a starter for Preston these days yet has scored 1 goal in 86 matches.

If you want to go down that route, Blair Alston scored 8 in 80 matches and Ali Crawford scored 5 in 44 but Craig Bryson scored 0 in 29. Yet who was the better player for Saints out the three?

 

[tree house tam]

You don't need stats to tell you Morris, Millar and McCann are better than Dan Phillips lads.

[RandomGuy.]

5 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

That’s a bit disingenuous though isn’t it?

Chris Millar was an attacking wide player in his first few seasons so his goal ratio was higher than when he moved to centre, where he gave us his best years but famously went ages without a goal before that winner against Utd late on (he scored 3 in his first 2 seasons then 1 in the next 6 or so).

Morris played a season or two in the division below where we were winning and scoring far more.

I only looked at top flight games for that reason. 

Morris/Millar/Bryson all offered huge amounts in terms of progressing play through midfield/keeping possession. Phillips doesn't do that either.

He needs to do one or the other or he's a luxury. Same as Matt Smith. You can't just coast through a season with 1 goal and 1 assist from open play while also not doing anything helpful in possession regularly. 

[PauloPerth]

49 minutes ago, tree house tam said:

You don't need stats to tell you Morris, Millar and McCann are better than Dan Phillips lads.

Correct Tam.

The point was judging some players on their goal involvement doesn’t give an accurate indication of their contribution.

The three mentioned were all top performers for us in centre midfield, none because of their goal or assist record.

[PSJ.84]

1 hour ago, double deluxe said:

That’s exactly how you just judged him though 

Not so much a judgement, more just passing comment that losing somebody who contributes very little in the final third from a squad that contributes very little isn’t a huge loss. Obviously that isn’t really his game but we have players in the squad who can do a similar job. Clearly he’s one of our better players and I’d have preferred him to stay, but I won’t be pining for him. 
 

Would’ve been better just to say that to start with tbf

Edited March 19 by PSJ.84

[PauloPerth]

3 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

I only looked at top flight games for that reason. 

Morris/Millar/Bryson all offered huge amounts in terms of progressing play through midfield/keeping possession. Phillips doesn't do that either.

He needs to do one or the other or he's a luxury. Same as Matt Smith. You can't just coast through a season with 1 goal and 1 assist from open play while also not doing anything helpful in possession regularly. 

Again, I wouldn’t compare Phillips to those players impact or ability wise, but how do you progress play when the players around you are completely incapable of doing anything with the ball?

I regularly see Phillips show great skill to keep the ball in tight areas drawing in 2 or 3 opponents before finding a teammate with space to drive into who invariably does nothing with it. Granted Phillips does give the ball away at times but I think that’s partly because he always wants to find a teammate and possibly holds on to the ball too long  looking for a pass. But yes, Saturday past he was poor.

Matt Smith I agree on. I have seen very little from him other than very occasional moments of skill.

Do Saints fans on here rate Smith on a par with Phillips? That would blow my mind! But all about opinions as they say.

[RandomGuy.]

7 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

Again, I wouldn’t compare Phillips to those players impact or ability wise, but how do you progress play when the players around you are completely incapable of doing anything with the ball?

By passing the ball well. He's great at rolling markers but horrendous for then hitting the wrong pass or hitting the right pass poorly. He's just not regularly doing that to a degree Millar did, and while it's unfair to hold a young player to those standards, it's also correct to hold one of the first names on a St Johnstone team sheet to those standards.

I really like him, and still fully believe he'd be better off as the CM who gets to charge about putting pressure on those around him. But, much like McCann, there's a fascination with trying to turn those type of CMs into deeper players. 

I'm not happy he's going but I'd also not be happy if he ended up as one of our higher earners.

[The Saintee]

TBF out of the whole squad of charlatans I only rate Clark( a crock ) and Mitov.

[The Real Saints]

5 hours ago, tree house tam said:

 

The fact that he's actually one of our better players and most folk aren't bothered he's leaving says a lot for this squad.

And the fact that a player of his fairly mediocre ability is turning down a contract at St Johnstone is a damning indictment of this club right now. Long-gone is the Tommy Wright era when we'd manage to extend the contacts of much better players against all odds.

Edited March 19 by The Real Saints

[Theyellowbox]

Not having Phillips contribute much in terms of goals and assists would be fine if he was the midfield disrupter and others were getting the goals and assist, but we have all our current midfielders not contributing enough to goals.

Phillips, Max and Smith, (could even throw in Crawford and MacPherson) are all decent technical footballers, but offer way way to little in terms or real offensive contributions.

Possibly unfair on Philips as he breaks things up and Smith does try to get the ball forward, but generally, the are not contributing enough.

I'll be proved wrong with stats I'm sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if our midfield have net backwards and sideways passes vs forward and if it is positive to the forward, it won't be by much.....