Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[Theyellowbox]

16 minutes ago, Honest Saints Fan said:

This is the bare minimum the club should be doing in the summer but will it happen?

I think the club probably needs to drop the net overall first team squad size by at least 8/9 players. I could see a cull of; Rudden, Mitchell and Montgomery heading back, although would be good to see club try and get Montgomery back with; Carey, Murphy, Crawford, Booth, Bair, Brown, Muzz, Gilmour, MOH and Hallberg all either being let go or contracts negotiated away.

Need to bring in another CB, Striker and Right back. The rest of the gaps, I'd let the youngsters step up, especially Sinclair in goal. 

[RandomGuy.]

Think you give Sinclair, Gallacher, and Ballantyne, the next 2 games to gauge where they are. That should help things. 

Definite, easy, outs for me are: Matthews, Mitchell, Gilmour, Muzz, MOH, Murphy, McLennan, Rudden, Vertainen.

New deals are: Parish (as emergency, break glass, 3rd choice), Wotherspoon, Kane

Undecided is: Montgomery (if possible), Hallberg

So 9, probably 10, out.

Leaves you with, say...

Sinclair, Parish, Brown, McGowan, Gordon, Considine, Gallacher, Booth, MacPherson, Phillips, Ballantyne, Wotherspoon, Ferguson, Carey, Wright, Max, Clark, May, Kane, Bair

...20 players.

From that lot you look at potentially Gallacher, if hes still not making any headway, and Bair, as easy decisions to get rid of. Ferguson, if he doesnt bulk up over the Summer, out on loan.

Thats you down to 17.

Add a GK to compete with Sinclair, RB to start ahead of Brown, LCB to start ahead of Considine, LB to start ahead of Booth, holding midfielder, and a winger with pace, new ST who can play alone.

 

A squad of 24.

GK - New GK, Sinclair, Parish

RB - New RB, Brown

CB - Gordon, New LCB, Considine, McGowan 

LB - New LB, Booth

CM - MacPherson, Phillips, New DM, Wotherspoon, Max, Ballantyne, McGowan

W - Wright, Carey, New W, Max

ST - May, Clark, Kane, new ST

 

Feels kind of right? Montgomery back on loan. Say Deas and Allardice as LCB, DM. Then you can focus on adding some real quality in attack. A good squad churn without doing too much? Needs the right balance despite how much of the squad failed this season.

Doubt that squad would be in the top half unless the attack catches fire, but youd hope they wouldnt be in a relegation fight. Itll take years to be free of Davidsons mess so baby steps are needed, i reckon.

[TheRealNumber5]

I don’t know how we did it, and quite frankly I really don’t care, but safety has to mean a totally changed team for the last two games. I don’t care about any other teams and their requirements. Sinclair has to play, Ballantyne and anyone else who is allowed. We’ve nothing to lose. 
We’re safe. Maybe we deserve it, maybe we don’t. I don’t care. We are safe. Get it right up everyone else. Especially the Dundee lot. United or unUnited. 
We made it. 
The end. 

[TheRealNumber5]

And yes, if Robbie Deas hasn’t signed his PCA somewhere else, get in there now we know where we stand. Start the rebuild now.
Top to bottom

[glenrothes 1884 saint]

4 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

Squad surely has to reduce in numbers so a lot should be forced onto them. 

Better to be a striker missing chances than not getting any.

He never missed them though, as he never even got near the ball,all it took was a slide in to  guarantee a goal, twice!

[glenrothes 1884 saint]

4 hours ago, mizfit said:

I’d be putting him to the bench if he’s not retiring. I notice cove are going full time. He might fancy a chance in league 1.

You think Liam is better?

[RandomGuy.]

7 minutes ago, glenrothes 1884 saint said:

He never missed them though, as he never even got near the ball,all it took was a slide in to  guarantee a goal, twice!

He had a chance right at the end he scooped over the bar. Half looked like he tried to dink it which seemed daft.

[Pens_Dark]

Does Maclean get the job then? I know this is a model of St Johnstones that has worked really well but I get the impression they need to buck the trend in this case.

[Theyellowbox]

3 minutes ago, Pens_Dark said:

Does Maclean get the job then? I know this is a model of St Johnstones that has worked really well but I get the impression they need to buck the trend in this case.

I'd say it's probably time for a clear out of players and coaches, but, if he were to get it, I wouldn't be gutted.

A lot will depend on whether there is new owners to come in or not. New owners means he won't get the job in my opinion. If it is as you were on that front, he probably gets the job. 

[glenrothes 1884 saint]

26 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

He had a chance right at the end he scooped over the bar. Half looked like he tried to dink it which seemed daft.

Oh I know, he couldn’t dink the keeper, he was on his line, it was a shite attempt,but he never reached two great crosses, due to not committing himself , so that’s not missing chances, it’s not reading them

[PSJ.84]

A left footed centre half is slowly becoming priority. 

[RandomGuy.]

6 hours ago, glenrothes 1884 saint said:

Oh I know, he couldn’t dink the keeper, he was on his line, it was a shite attempt,but he never reached two great crosses, due to not committing himself , so that’s not missing chances, it’s not reading them

Right.

So him missing chances wasnt him missing chances because other times he didn't reach crosses.

Glad thats cleared up.

[The Marly]

I'm not sure why anyone is defending Rudden.  He's clearly not good enough.  We'll have Clark, May and  possibly Kane next season.  We need to have better than Rudden as a fourth option.  It's the same in midfield - at the moment I'd have to agree that McPherson is probably a first pick in there given the options we have.  But my God what a downgrade on what we've had in the middle of the park over the last fifteen seasons.  From the likes of Morris, Millar, Davidson and McCann to Cammy McPherson? That shows how far we've dropped the last two seasons.  We will hopefully cut a lot of deadwood and use the money saved to sign some quality. My absolute priorities would be a midfielder who can look after the ball, a dominant centre half, a pacy winger and a jewel up front.

[Radford]

Will maybe ask again in a week but with safety now secured, seems the discussion should at least be opened.

A simple yes or no, in a poll-style, is perfectly acceptable as well as reasons if desired.

Should Steven MacLean be given the job?

[The Marly]

1 minute ago, Radford said:

Will maybe ask again in a week but with safety now secured, seems the discussion should at least be opened.

A simple yes or no, in a poll-style, is perfectly acceptable as well as reasons if desired.

Should Steven MacLean be given the job?

Possibly.

[RandomGuy.]

38 minutes ago, The Marly said:

I'm not sure why anyone is defending Rudden.  He's clearly not good enough.  We'll have Clark, May and  possibly Kane next season.  We need to have better than Rudden as a fourth option. 

I wasnt defending Rudden in a "lets keep him" kind of way, hes clearly not up to it. Just think hes got a knack of getting into good positions and at this level that probably gets you 3/4 a season.

He needs to be punted back to Dundee but hes not the worst striker we've had either, which some folk feel desperate to paint him as. Hes only a few months older than Ballantyne. 

29 minutes ago, Radford said:

Will maybe ask again in a week but with safety now secured, seems the discussion should at least be opened.

A simple yes or no, in a poll-style, is perfectly acceptable as well as reasons if desired.

Should Steven MacLean be given the job?

No for me, if ive to decide today.

Dont think we're safe by now with Davidson in charge, but think we have to judge MacLean by his own merits rather than falling into the trap of comparing him to a failure and seeing just the good.

Tactically made it fairly simple and like how brave he can be in set up and selection, but we still dont know how he responds to being behind apart from one shitshow performance and im convinced this squad were always going to improve once being freed from Davidsons shackles.

Squad needs improved while simultaneously needing numbers cut and wages cut. Need someone who understands how to do that IMO, MacLean has zero track record. 

All that said id be surprised if they don't give him the job. Guess you wonder what happens if he doesnt get the job now too. Does he revert back to assistant to the new manager, would the new manager want that? Would he drop to just a coach again? 

Edited May 21, 2023 by RandomGuy.

[Radford]

11 minutes ago, The Marly said:

Possibly.

The thing is we (well not we, but you know what I mean) are going to need to decide in a week's time as there won't be any further opportunities for him, other than maybe in an interview scenario.

But I definitely understand your answer.

For me, every instinct is probably telling me no. We don't need continuity, we need a fresh broom and does replacing a failing manager with his assistant ever work? But then maybe he isn't and doesn't want to be seen as the continuity candidate (would Davidson ever have played Ballantyne yesterday?) but is he going to he able to say that publicly to win people like me over, without sticking the knife into his friend Callum Davidson? Can this squad react to him positively over the longer-term given there is a reasonable claim that they'd stopped playing for Callum Davidson?

A lot of boxes, he does tick. He knows the club and the league, he's certainly passionate, he has contacts from playing across the UK, he's young and ambitious. But what has happened over the past 18 months leaves such a cloud hanging.

Maybe it's fortunate for everyone he has another couple of auditions.

[The Marly]

6 minutes ago, Radford said:

The thing is we (well not we, but you know what I mean) are going to need to decide in a week's time as there won't be any further opportunities for him, other than maybe in an interview scenario.

But I definitely understand your answer.

For me, every instinct is probably telling me no. We don't need continuity, we need a fresh broom and does replacing a failing manager with his assistant ever work? But then maybe he isn't and doesn't want to be seen as the continuity candidate (would Davidson ever have played Ballantyne yesterday?) but is he going to he able to say that publicly to win people like me over, without sticking the knife into his friend Callum Davidson? Can this squad react to him positively over the longer-term given there is a reasonable claim that they'd stopped playing for Callum Davidson?

A lot of boxes, he does tick. He knows the club and the league, he's certainly passionate, he has contacts from playing across the UK, he's young and ambitious. But what has happened over the past 18 months leaves such a cloud hanging.

Maybe it's fortunate for everyone he has another couple of auditions.

I say possibly because I don't know who else would apply really.  If we got a really good experienced manager applying then we would have to take him in my opinion - but Macca has done well.  I'm torn tbh.

[The Marly]

14 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

I wasnt defending Rudden in a "lets keep him" kind of way, hes clearly not up to it. Just think hes got a knack of getting into good positions and at this level that probably gets you 3/4 a season.

He needs to be punted back to Dundee but hes not the worst striker we've had either, which some folk feel desperate to paint him as. Hes only a few months older than Ballantyne. 

 

It wasn't just aimed at you, there have been others defending him (not just on here).  The fact you feel he could get 3/4 a season says it all - that's not nearly good enough.

His age is irrelevant.  Ballantyne I could see developing into a decent player for us, Rudden I can't.

[mizfit]

I don’t know what to think about Maclean getting it long term. Getting us safe with games to spare is a big tick in the box, and to be honest I didn’t see where we picked up the points to do it under Davidson. 
 

On the subject of next season, I’d rather we only keep Wotherspoon & Brown from the out of contracts. Use the money to bring in another left sided defender, a midfielder in the same vein as Muzz and a good back up goalkeeper.