Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[templeofsaints]

16 minutes ago, Center half said:

Was Granny Drainger  Danny Grainger no their manager??? 

Think it was Darren Sheridan wasn't it?

[Center half]

18 minutes ago, templeofsaints said:

Think it was Darren Sheridan wasn't it?

i thought it was Danny Grainger? had guys working at Sellafield for a few weeks and i'm sure they went to see them play and gave Danny a bit of Banter on the touchline he came over after the game and had a good chat with them ! might be wrong of course! 

[Ludo*1]

MacLean's excuse of not having signed many players because he was appointed late is weakened when Tony Docherty, a manager officially appointed 2 days after him, has made 11 signings so far. Now, these players might turn out to be rubbish, granted, but just a bit of a weird card for MacLean to be using.

[Fife Saint]

3 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

MacLean's excuse of not having signed many players because he was appointed late is weakened when Tony Docherty, a manager officially appointed 2 days after him, has made 11 signings so far. Now, these players might turn out to be rubbish, granted, but just a bit of a weird card for MacLean to be using.

Lower standards in Dundee.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Fife Saint

[RandomGuy.]

10 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

MacLean's excuse of not having signed many players because he was appointed late is weakened when Tony Docherty, a manager officially appointed 2 days after him, has made 11 signings so far. Now, these players might turn out to be rubbish, granted, but just a bit of a weird card for MacLean to be using.

You're signing folk from Mexico based on word of mouth. We're doing due diligence on players trying to rebuild the club. We are not the same.

We're in different situations in all seriousness, so it was always going to see two different approaches. Dundee had too few players while we had too many, so its no surprise Dochertys trying to emulate Killies "one season wonder" squad, with the intention to really push on next Summer as a more appealing club (top flight club v newly promoted club) while MacLean is more picky about the few players he can sign.

[RandomGuy.]

Not sure where to ask on this site, but what do folk think is the fairest way to judge players, using both club and league? Try it every which way and see benefits/truth in them all tbh.

1. League over single season, club over single season

2. League over multiple seasons, club over single season

3. League over single season, club over multiple seasons

4. League over multiple seasons, club over multiple seasons

[double deluxe]

1 hour ago, Ludo*1 said:

MacLean's excuse of not having signed many players because he was appointed late is weakened when Tony Docherty, a manager officially appointed 2 days after him, has made 11 signings so far. Now, these players might turn out to be rubbish, granted, but just a bit of a weird card for MacLean to be using.

[TheRealNumber5]

Until the signing is confirmed and he’s stood there holding his jersey I refuse to even believe he might be coming to us. We’ve been made to wait on every one so far. It shouldn’t be this hard to sign players. 
I’m a paranoid pessimist

[SJFCtheTeamForMe]

6 minutes ago, TheRealNumber5 said:

Until the signing is confirmed and he’s stood there holding his jersey I refuse to even believe he might be coming to us. We’ve been made to wait on every one so far. It shouldn’t be this hard to sign players. 
I’m a paranoid pessimist

The same delay we seen of the Jephcott signing could well apply here as well. 

The same circumstances applies. Under 23 & moving from a different association. 

People will be having a meltdown if it happens again

[Widge]

40 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Not sure where to ask on this site, but what do folk think is the fairest way to judge players, using both club and league? Try it every which way and see benefits/truth in them all tbh.

1. League over single season, club over single season

2. League over multiple seasons, club over single season

3. League over single season, club over multiple seasons

4. League over multiple seasons, club over multiple seasons

I mean obviously the 4th one is going to give the most accurate results. Then id say the 2nd one. 

[RandomGuy.]

5 minutes ago, Widge said:

I mean obviously the 4th one is going to give the most accurate results. Then id say the 2nd one. 

This is McLelland off the 4th option.

[Widge]

32 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

This is McLelland off the 4th option.

That’s alright, looks like he’ll score goals!

[sergie's no1 fan]

2 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

MacLean's excuse of not having signed many players because he was appointed late is weakened when Tony Docherty, a manager officially appointed 2 days after him, has made 11 signings so far. Now, these players might turn out to be rubbish, granted, but just a bit of a weird card for MacLean to be using.

From the outside it looks like the Perth Saints only have enough space in their squad for a few more if that, that's after shedding so many already. MacLean needs to get every signing spot on, no room for error.

Where as Docherty has had to pretty much build his from scratch with a small number of players being kept on, if I'm not mistaken? So he can afford to be a bit more hit and miss with a certain percentage of his signings.

Will be interesting to see how the 2 rookie managers get on.

I am assuming Killie will be better this season and Motherwell will keep up their good form under Kettlewell, albeit they have lost KVV who was winning them points on his own.

 

 

 

[Shipa]

2 hours ago, TheRealNumber5 said:

Until the signing is confirmed and he’s stood there holding his jersey I refuse to even believe he might be coming to us. We’ve been made to wait on every one so far. It shouldn’t be this hard to sign players. 
I’m a paranoid pessimist

Missed deadline for today's PA, have to wait til Tuesday now!

[SJFCtheTeamForMe]

1 hour ago, sergie's no1 fan said:

From the outside it looks like the Perth Saints only have enough space in their squad for a few more if that, that's after shedding so many already. MacLean needs to get every signing spot on, no room for error.

Where as Docherty has had to pretty much build his from scratch with a small number of players being kept on, if I'm not mistaken? So he can afford to be a bit more hit and miss with a certain percentage of his signings.

Will be interesting to see how the 2 rookie managers get on.

I am assuming Killie will be better this season and Motherwell will keep up their good form under Kettlewell, albeit they have lost KVV who was winning them points on his own.

 

 

 

The apparent financial mismanagement during Davidson's period is a major reason we've only having space for a few. 30+ first time players, 18 released (only about 3 of those played any football for Saints). 

Higher than Saints normal level salary multi year deals also handed out to the likes of Crawford means we're  also hamstrung due to those. Those players won't be interested in moving on early. 

The result is having to cut back on both wages offered & senior players we have.

Dundee will have a budget much larger than Saints. Maybe even double?

It's hard to predict what teams will do as it often doesn't work out as people may think based on signings made. 

People have been saying the likes of Saints and Livi will go down for years. Time will tell. Saints could still surprise a few this season yet.

[Radford]

There is no doubt the process has been slow but half-a-dozen short-term fixes would have just been another nail in the coffin for St Johnstone.

Whether we've stopped the bleeding in time will obviously become the pertinent question but, make absolutely no mistake, this was a playing squad living on borrowed time.

I said at the time that giving Steven MacLean three years was both good and necessary as any new manager needed to feel they were in an environment where they could attempt to rebuild.

He will always ultimately be judged upon whether these signings are good but it was absolutely imperative that we brought in players at peak age or lower on permanent deals this summer and I've been impressed by the fact he's remained true to that when undoubtedly there would have been moments where he could have panicked.

If he can add the other two he wants and they are in the same mould and on the same terms as the first three then he can really pleased with his summer's work and we can explore (good) loan options towards the end of the window.

[Valentino Bolognese]

34 minutes ago, Radford said:

There is no doubt the process has been slow but half-a-dozen short-term fixes would have just been another nail in the coffin for St Johnstone.

Whether we've stopped the bleeding in time will obviously become the pertinent question but, make absolutely no mistake, this was a playing squad living on borrowed time.

I said at the time that giving Steven MacLean three years was both good and necessary as any new manager needed to feel they were in an environment where they could attempt to rebuild.

He will always ultimately be judged upon whether these signings are good but it was absolutely imperative that we brought in players at peak age or lower on permanent deals this summer and I've been impressed by the fact he's remained true to that when undoubtedly there would have been moments where he could have panicked.

If he can add the other two he wants and they are in the same mould and on the same terms as the first three then he can really pleased with his summer's work and we can explore (good) loan options towards the end of the window.

Agree with this entirely. The age and potential profile of the signings is right but the club's hand is forced and it might be too late to pull out of the tailspin, as innevitably with this signing policy we'll have starting players still learning their trade as the season goes on and with less experience relegation pressure might be a factor.

CD was in a self-created circle of brining in 'experienced' players who perhaps he thought would be able to handle the pressure, but in actuality they weren't good enough, too old etc. Plugging gaps with loans didn't help. Montgomery was great for us but now we've got a starting left back that's lost a full season of his career and no cover or options at CB. Which is even more mad considering he played 3 and McLean's playing 2.

Edited to add ... I actually think that we're doing as good a job on the signings front as we could have realistically expected, still on the fence on McLean, overall I'm 50/50 on whether we'll go down.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Valentino Bolognese

[tree house tam]

After Mclelland the next two signings have to be class. The names mentioned are, in my eyes, proper game changers. The CM (who's name was leaked on twitter a few days before the WAP exclusive, by folk who should know better) is the exact type of player we need. These signings are still a fair bit away from being done deals but Macca is targeting the right types in the right positions. As long as he doesn't go down the set system route that his predecessor went then I think he'll do okay.

[mizfit]

3 minutes ago, tree house tam said:

After Mclelland the next two signings have to be class. The names mentioned are, in my eyes, proper game changers. The CM (who's name was leaked on twitter a few days before the WAP exclusive, by folk who should know better) is the exact type of player we need. These signings are still a fair bit away from being done deals but Macca is targeting the right types in the right positions. As long as he doesn't go down the set system route that his predecessor went then I think he'll do okay.

A comment made by Gus in March still sticks with me. “Callum had the final say on everything.” 
 

Now, that sounds like victim blaming, but the way Maccas spoke, the way he’s setting up, and also who he’s targeting suggests there was some form of disagreement in the management structure. I refuse to believe Macca just glumly accepted without arguing, and the way he’s tried to play since suggests he wants to experiment. 

[SJFCtheTeamForMe]

2 minutes ago, mizfit said:

A comment made by Gus in March still sticks with me. “Callum had the final say on everything.” 
 

Now, that sounds like victim blaming, but the way Maccas spoke, the way he’s setting up, and also who he’s targeting suggests there was some form of disagreement in the management structure. I refuse to believe Macca just glumly accepted without arguing, and the way he’s tried to play since suggests he wants to experiment. 

For example I think we might see Tommy Wright style away setups when we go to thr Old Firm away as well as the other places like Pittodrie if they're performing well. 

4-5-1 out of possession, pin them in from their goal kicks and force them to kick long then into a 4-3-3 in possession.