Follow Follow Rangers. Season 2024/25

[2426255]

It's been good chatting, but I'm going to wrap this up now in favour of the Scotland game. I seem to remember having the exact same conversation about this subject last year with someone (might have been you), so maybe catch you next season.

Edited October 17, 2023 by 2426255

[AJF]

6 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

We mock and put the boot in at every opportunity as that’s part of the rivalry and will continue to do so with this guy when the opportunity appears and he’s punted next season. FFS you dobbers mocked Ange at every possibly opportunity and now he’s sitting top of the EPL with back to back managers of the month. It’s just the way of things.

You don’t have to agree with me, I’m happy enough just watching the shit show and happily clapping

But that’s avoiding the point I made. If you don’t genuinely believe that Beale deserved to go, then fair enough. But if you do, then we are in agreement. And if we are in agreement, then I just can’t comprehend how you can then label that as me expecting too much or scapegoating the managers?

And your Ange comparison is a false equivalence. He was mocked for plenty of things, but I don’t think anyone mocked his managerial ability at the time of his departure. I even said myself I thought he’d do well at Spurs.

[willywastecoat]

1 hour ago, AJF said:

But that’s avoiding the point I made. If you don’t genuinely believe that Beale deserved to go, then fair enough. But if you do, then we are in agreement. And if we are in agreement, then I just can’t comprehend how you can then label that as me expecting too much or scapegoating the managers?

And your Ange comparison is a false equivalence. He was mocked for plenty of things, but I don’t think anyone mocked his managerial ability at the time of his departure. I even said myself I thought he’d do well at Spurs.

What you're basically saying, the fans have no influence over any decision the board makes so it falls and rises with them?

Edited October 17, 2023 by willywastecoat

[Jinky67]

1 hour ago, AJF said:

But that’s avoiding the point I made. If you don’t genuinely believe that Beale deserved to go, then fair enough. But if you do, then we are in agreement. And if we are in agreement, then I just can’t comprehend how you can then label that as me expecting too much or scapegoating the managers?

And your Ange comparison is a false equivalence. He was mocked for plenty of things, but I don’t think anyone mocked his managerial ability at the time of his departure. I even said myself I thought he’d do well at Spurs.

That’s because I already addressed by telling you that it genuinely wouldn’t have mattered who you brought in, the outcome would have been the same. No manager can do a good job in that environment just now. 

Rangers managers now follow a pattern. They come in before the winter window which is effectively caretaking until the summer which is the first opportunity to really put their own stamp on the squad. It then isn’t surprising to see some inconsistent performances and results however the manager is emptied 2-3 months later as fans aren’t willing to accept that as they expect to be able to rebuild a squad in the summer and keep pace with Celtic so yeah I think it’s harsh they aren’t given at least a 2nd winter window, funny as f**k but harsh. 

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Jinky67

[AJF]

22 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

That’s because I already addressed by telling you that it genuinely wouldn’t have mattered who you brought in, the outcome would have been the same. No manager can do a good job in that environment just now. 

Rangers managers now follow a pattern. They come in before the winter window which is effectively caretaking until the summer which is the first opportunity to really put their own stamp on the squad. It then isn’t surprising to see some inconsistent performances and results however the manager is emptied 2-3 months later as fans aren’t willing to accept that as they expect to be able to rebuild a squad in the summer and keep pace with Celtic so yeah I think it’s harsh they aren’t given at least a 2nd winter window, funny as f**k but harsh. 

 

But I don’t think that opinion regarding a pattern emerging is mutually exclusive from believing that Beale’s time was up.

It seems that because I am saying I think it was time for him to go, I am being accused of expecting too much and scapegoating the manager when in fact it was likely the opinion of most other fans too. And I think that includes you, you just don’t care to admit it because it goes against your claim of me expecting too much by wanting Beale out.

[2426255]

8 hours ago, AJF said:

But I don’t think that opinion regarding a pattern emerging is mutually exclusive from believing that Beale’s time was up.

It seems that because I am saying I think it was time for him to go, I am being accused of expecting too much and scapegoating the manager when in fact it was likely the opinion of most other fans too. And I think that includes you, you just don’t care to admit it because it goes against your claim of me expecting too much by wanting Beale out.

We don't expect you to see it as you're in the bubble, but it's clear that the Ibrox faithful have a negative impact upon Rangers. Whether you wish to accept it or not that's up to you. It's a straightforward argument:

Rangers fans expect to compete with Celtic, that's unrealistic presently over the course of a season unless Celtic implode like during the Covid season. How can a manager succeed given the gap between fan expectations and Rangers present capabilities? Phillipe Clement isn't a magician. It's a bit like expecting Hearts or Aberdeen to compete with Rangers for 2nd place - it's just wishful thinking/pipe dream that might happen every once in a while should the correct circumstance manifest themselves.

Edited October 18, 2023 by 2426255

[AJF]

9 hours ago, 2426255 said:

We don't expect you to see it as you're in the bubble, but it's clear that the Ibrox faithful have a negative impact upon Rangers. Whether you wish to accept it or not that's up to you. It's a straightforward argument:

Rangers fans expect to compete with Celtic, that's unrealistic presently over the course of a season unless Celtic implode like during the Covid season. How can a manager succeed given the gap between fan expectations and Rangers present capabilities? Phillipe Clement isn't a magician. It's a bit like expecting Hearts or Aberdeen to compete with Rangers for 2nd place - it's just wishful thinking/pipe dream that might happen every once in a while should the correct circumstance manifest themselves.

I totally appreciate what you are saying, but the fact that Beale wasn't likely to topple Celtic doesn't mean he will remain in post indefinitely. Surely you can appreciate that he deserved to go after starting the season with a CL exit, 3 defeats in our opening 7 matches and 7 points behind the leaders, not even in 2nd place. 

It will be the same with Clement, nobody is saying he needs to come in and immediately win the treble, just improve us and don't be shite. Beale had a horrendous start to the season and was rightly punted, I find it staggering anyone will dispute that.

[stressball]

14 hours ago, AJF said:

But that’s avoiding the point I made. If you don’t genuinely believe that Beale deserved to go, then fair enough. But if you do, then we are in agreement. And if we are in agreement, then I just can’t comprehend how you can then label that as me expecting too much or scapegoating the managers?

And your Ange comparison is a false equivalence. He was mocked for plenty of things, but I don’t think anyone mocked his managerial ability at the time of his departure. I even said myself I thought he’d do well at Spurs.

Beale deserved to go both for his complete lack of managerial ability and for being an absolute snake and your board enabled it.  
 

Classless.

Done Gio absolutely dirty by courting the cockney fraudster whilst your fans lapped it up because he was drinking in the Louden.

All parties got exactly what they deserved.

Edited October 18, 2023 by stressball

[AJF]

2 minutes ago, stressball said:

Beale deserved to go

Thanks, finally someone admits it. That's what I've been saying too, but have been told thinking that means I expect too much.

[stressball]

3 minutes ago, AJF said:

Thanks, finally someone admits it. That's what I've been saying too, but have been told thinking that means I expect too much.

Your fan base is definitely a huge part of the problem. You expect immediate success which leads to you enabling failure by rushing every single decision and going about it all the wrong way.

[AJF]

3 minutes ago, stressball said:

Your fan base is definitely a huge part of the problem. You expect immediate success which leads to you enabling failure by rushing every single decision and going about it all the wrong way.

That's a slightly different point than the one that kicked off this whole shenanigans. I was told that by believing it was the correct call to sack Beale I was expecting too much and was using him as a scapegoat. My point was how can I be expecting too much in wanting Beale sacked if everyone else believes he should've been sacked too. That's all, really. Then it just evolved into this mess because people didn't want to just accept that.

[Dons_1988]

4 minutes ago, AJF said:

That's a slightly different point than the one that kicked off this whole shenanigans. I was told that by believing it was the correct call to sack Beale I was expecting too much and was using him as a scapegoat. My point was how can I be expecting too much in wanting Beale sacked if everyone else believes he should've been sacked too. That's all, really. Then it just evolved into this mess because people didn't want to just accept that.

Keep fighting the good fight. 

[2426255]

28 minutes ago, stressball said:

Your fan base is definitely a huge part of the problem. You expect immediate success which leads to you enabling failure by rushing every single decision and going about it all the wrong way.

It is the problem, where it starts and ends. If you fixed that all else would have a chance to move in the right direction.

Edited October 18, 2023 by 2426255

[Jinky67]

13 hours ago, AJF said:

But I don’t think that opinion regarding a pattern emerging is mutually exclusive from believing that Beale’s time was up.

It seems that because I am saying I think it was time for him to go, I am being accused of expecting too much and scapegoating the manager when in fact it was likely the opinion of most other fans too. And I think that includes you, you just don’t care to admit it because it goes against your claim of me expecting too much by wanting Beale out.

You seem to be taking this as you being singled out, it’s not. It’s a generalisation based on your fans general expectations of what they expect Rangers to be able to achieve.

I also don’t know why you seem desperate for people to agree with you or why you need your opinion validated by a Celtic fan. 

[bennett]

 

 It’s a generalisation based on your fans general expectations.

[AJF]

11 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

You seem to be taking this as you being singled out, it’s not. It’s a generalisation based on your fans general expectations of what they expect Rangers to be able to achieve.

I also don’t know why you seem desperate for people to agree with you or why you need your opinion validated by a Celtic fan. 

I'm not, I don't need you to validate my opinion. I was simply questioning your logic when you implied I was expecting too much and scapegoating Beale after I said I thought he deserved to go. You agree that he deserved to go and have said as much at the time, so I just don't understand your point. You keep avoiding it.

[2426255]

Beale was within the boundaries of a reasonable and neutral expectation of where Rangers could expect to be at an early stage of the season: In and around 2nd place and competing at the Europa League/Conference League level - that's where I see Rangers just as a neutral observer. He wasn't exceeding that which was the issue. Rangers supporters demand their manager to outperform their capabilities on a consistent basis to compete with Celtic and so that results in an impossible remit for a manager at Ibrox. When he or GVB inevitably failed to do that they were sacked. 

Rangers supporters don't know their place in the pecking order which results in the club trying to do things too quickly resulting in poor decision making instead of taking the longer road to build a more sustainable approach to competing. It's a lack of patience driven by fans who don't accept the reality of where Rangers are. That's a straightforward, easily understandable and accurate analysis of the situation at Ibrox.

[AJF]

 

[bennett]

 

 

 

[AJF]

9 minutes ago, bennett said:

 

 

 

Ah well. The 25 minutes of hope between those tweets was fun while it lasted.

Edited October 18, 2023 by AJF