Next UK Labour Leader - post Brexit

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Which particular tyranny are we talking about? Which particular minority?

I think he means the gays

[Scary Bear]

Yup. Blindly following the majority opinion in a country, especially in Britain, is just dangerous. I'm all for the Labour Party adopting a much softer tone on immigration and challenging the dominant narrative that immigration is destroying the fabric of this country. If people are told for decades that immigration will damage the country then people will believe it.

Way off. It was the immigrants.

I don't like the immigrants bashing - whether it's angry rhetoric or more worryingly, physical violence - but if the majority of the public have concerns about immigration and politicians basically ignore this, then it leads to anger.

Politicians can by all means challenge the view that immigration is bad, but if they are out of tune with the electorate then they'll rightly lose their seats in parliament.

[Scary Bear]

To bring this thread roughly back on track, MPs could also challenge the view that Corbyn should be leader. This was out out tune with the majority of Labour members, so you would imagine that some of these MPs will be deselected in the near future.

[Cream Cheese]

If the state ever wanted to re-legalize the death penalty, they would make sure there were plenty of "unforeseen" atrocities to stir public opinion in their favour leading up to the vote. This is what the state does with controversial policies. They set the stage for a favourable result.

[strichener]

If the state ever wanted to re-legalize the death penalty, they would make sure there were plenty of "unforeseen" atrocities to stir public opinion in their favour leading up to the vote. This is what the state does with controversial policies. They set the stage for a favourable result.

Makes you wonder why the SNP didn't organise a series of English atrocities before the vote in 2014.

Tin foil hat nonsense from you again. [emoji42]

[NotThePars]

Way off. It was the immigrants.

I don't like the immigrants bashing - whether it's angry rhetoric or more worryingly, physical violence - but if the majority of the public have concerns about immigration and politicians basically ignore this, then it leads to anger.

Politicians can by all means challenge the view that immigration is bad, but if they are out of tune with the electorate then they'll rightly lose their seats in parliament.

With the greatest of respect, the majority of the public don't have a clue what they're raging about most of the time. You only have to look at the Brexit debate and how it was fuelled and informed by politicians on both sides pandering to the most ignorant voices in the debate to see that there was perceived mileage in bashing immigrants or the EU. Now that Corbyn's secured his position again I hope the Labour Party start to build on the economic case for immigration and develop an emotional case for accepting more. We haven't heard a cohesive and consistent case for why immigration is good and I would hope that at least one major party refusing to pander to anti-immigrant sentiment whipped up by the elite in Britain might build a more positive view for it.

[Scary Bear]

With the greatest of respect, the majority of the public don't have a clue what they're raging about most of the time. You only have to look at the Brexit debate and how it was fuelled and informed by politicians on both sides pandering to the most ignorant voices in the debate to see that there was perceived mileage in bashing immigrants or the EU. Now that Corbyn's secured his position again I hope the Labour Party start to build on the economic case for immigration and develop an emotional case for accepting more. We haven't heard a cohesive and consistent case for why immigration is good and I would hope that at least one major party refusing to pander to anti-immigrant sentiment whipped up by the elite in Britain might build a more positive view for it.

Being dismissive of the views of the general public isn't a good thing. Should some people not be entitled to vote? Should there be mandatory testing before people have the right to vote?

Labour, the SNP, Liberal Democrats, and the majority of the Tories in positions of power, have been telling the public that immigration is good. Just as they said the EU was a good thing. They seem to have trouble getting their message across. Maybe people aren't listening.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Being dismissive of the views of the general public isn't a good thing. Should some people not be entitled to vote? Should there be mandatory testing before people have the right to vote?

Labour, the SNP, Liberal Democrats, and the majority of the Tories in positions of power, have been telling the public that immigration is good. Just as they said the EU was a good thing. They seem to have trouble getting their message across. Maybe people aren't listening.

People have had enough of experts type post

[WaffenThinMint]

49 minutes ago, strichener said:

Makes you wonder why the SNP didn't organise a series of English atrocities before the vote in 2014.

Why bother? If Thatcher, Blair, Three-Lions-On-A-Shirt-Eng-Ger-Land and Strictly Come Dancing didn't have us stampeding to Yes then even a repeat of the Burnt Candlemas wouldn't piss off enough Scots to vote for independence.

[Scary Bear]

People have had enough of experts type post

And they have the vote too. Won't someone save us from the masses.

[Jacksgranda]

23 hours ago, Peppino Impastato said:

23 hours ago, Peppino Impastato said:

Cherry picking irrelevant examples,  it would only be relevant if all of America thought that.

 

 

For example,  if most people think we should not have nuclear weapons we shouldn't have them, it's the job of politicians to represent the views of the public they serve and who elect them, that's what they're there for.  With your example you touch on the role of a free and professional press in a democracy but I don't have time to gie you a lesson on democratic functions.

 

 

The death penalty is a commonly cited exception to this rule, and ironic given we exist in a partly Christianity based system of laws and Christianitypreaches an aye for an eye, but nobody rreally cares enough to make a big issue out of it.

Best vote "no" ,then

 

 

 

 

[pandarilla]

Dear oh dear.

The British Social Attitudes Report of 2014 said 48% were in favour of capital punishment. More damningly, Guido Fawkes' attempt to trigger a debate in the Commons on the topic resulted in him barely scraping a quarter of the 100 000 petition signatures required.

As Albert Pierrepoint pointed out (excuse the pun), opinion polls in favour of capital punishment always appeared to be taken after some brutal well publicised murder, & always by newspapers looking to sell extra copies. There was a notorious MORI poll back in 2000 after the Sarah Payne murder when the Sun was milking it for all it was worth. 58% in favour - but the second a year later in December 2001 saw support had fallen to 41%.

UKIP - that ever reliable barometer of blatant populism - have refused to touch the policy with a bargepole, the nearest they've come was approving referendums that at least 100 000 people petitioned Parliament for whether the Commons approved or not. Even then, Farage made it clear he'd campaign vociferously against any reintroduction.

There's a difference, a big difference between what people would like in a fleeting survey & what they care enough about to be prepared to campaign for or vote for in an election.

What's with the 'dear oh dear' at the start of the post?

The substance of your post is interesting and certainly worthy of discussion (even though we've went off topic).

But your posting style often makes you come across as a right knob.

[Ira Gaines]

Probably because he is a knob tbh.

[pandarilla]

Being dismissive of the views of the general public isn't a good thing. Should some people not be entitled to vote? Should there be mandatory testing before people have the right to vote?

Labour, the SNP, Liberal Democrats, and the majority of the Tories in positions of power, have been telling the public that immigration is good. Just as they said the EU was a good thing. They seem to have trouble getting their message across. Maybe people aren't listening.

I think you've got far too much faith in the public chief. Some folk are incredibly thick and plenty are incredibly selfish.

There is no better alternative than representative democracy - but it's still a shite state of affairs.

[WaffenThinMint]

1 hour ago, pandarilla said:

What's with the 'dear oh dear' at the start of the post?

The substance of your post is interesting and certainly worthy of discussion (even though we've went off topic).

But your posting style often makes you come across as a right knob.

Charmed to receive a lecture on posting etiquette from you at this stage.

No, really...

On 29/09/2016 at 19:33, pandarilla said:

[to Peppino Impastato]

I'm sorry but this is pish.... And if anyone is guilty of tribalism it's you.

 

 

On 30/09/2016 at 07:59, pandarilla said:

if you'd just take a second to breathe, and think it through....Blindly following opinion polls (or wanting your elected officials to do so) is the actions of a cretin.

 

On 01/10/2016 at 11:07, pandarilla said:

You've thrown this into a long-winded rant about labour and their relationship with homosexuality.

There's more than a touch of ad lib about this post.
 

 

[pandarilla]

When it's merited, I'm all for handing out an internet shoeing.

But there was nothing at all wrong with my initial query (and it was a query) about capital punishment. You were just unable to converse in reasonable fashion.

[Scary Bear]

I think you've got far too much faith in the public chief. Some folk are incredibly thick and plenty are incredibly selfish.

There is no better alternative than representative democracy - but it's still a shite state of affairs.

So should we have some form of exam that people have to take before they get the vote?

Or should we just try and do a better job of educating these incredibly thick and incredibly selfish people?

I'm pretty sure that some of those MPs must fall in to one of those camps, possibly both.

[pandarilla]

So should we have some form of exam that people have to take before they get the vote?

Or should we just try and do a better job of educating these incredibly thick and incredibly selfish people?

I'm pretty sure that some of those MPs must fall in to one of those camps, possibly both.

As I've said, there is no better system.

I fully agree with your last statement - and also with the middle one.

[NotThePars]

Being dismissive of the views of the general public isn't a good thing. Should some people not be entitled to vote? Should there be mandatory testing before people have the right to vote?

Labour, the SNP, Liberal Democrats, and the majority of the Tories in positions of power, have been telling the public that immigration is good. Just as they said the EU was a good thing. They seem to have trouble getting their message across. Maybe people aren't listening.

I don't think I suggested that once. And I never said to be dismissive, I just think they should reject pandering to a, let's be honest, xenophobic public and instead explain why immigration is good economically and socially.

[WaffenThinMint]

1 hour ago, pandarilla said:

When it's merited, I'm all for handing out an internet shoeing.

But there was nothing at all wrong with my initial query (and it was a query) about capital punishment. You were just unable to converse in reasonable fashion.

Define what you mean by "merited", because right now it's looking pretty much like "when I'm dishing it out, not receiving it".

If a polite "dear oh dear" is so offensive to your tender petals (whilst merrily dishing out the ad hominems like Smarties), I shudder to think how you'd cope with one of the usual suspects sticking "gutted for you", "swing and a miss", "better luck next time" at the end of every reply post to you.