BerwickMad Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 And people like you think it's perfectly acceptable for an MP to tell their democratically elected leader to "sit down and shut up" in the House of Commons. I don't, I think that is totally unacceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakedee Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 A right wing Government opposed by a centre right opposition seems where the plp want to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerwickMad Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Good response. You've addressed my point well there. Look at his popularity ratings. Read what people say about him. Listen to people knocking on doors in places like Leeds and Sunderland. This utter delusion that he will change the mentality of an electorate who have hardened against him is ridiculous. He's convincing nobody outside his narrow support base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakedee Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 I don't, I think that is totally unacceptable. And yet it's Corbyns inability to lead that gets the most criticism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 2 minutes ago, BerwickMad said: I don't, I think that is totally unacceptable. How about all the other personal attacks by his fellow chicken coup MPs? There have been several VERY personal ones levelled at Corbyn. Certainly too many to list here. Do you think they're unacceptable too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 29 minutes ago, jmothecat said: Corbyn knows that he is destroying the party and should step down in the interest of unity. His refusal to do so is despicable. As soon as he lost that no confidence vote he should have done the decent thing. That is undoubtedly one of the most bizarre posts I have read on this thread. Corbyn was elected by over 100,000 Labour Party and affiliate members - all the indications are they want him to remain. Yet because one hundred and odd Labour MPs want him gone you think he should resign 'in the interest of unity'. It is folk like you who are fucking up the Labour Party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Just now, Granny Danger said: That is undoubtedly one of the most bizarre posts I have read on this thread. Corbyn was elected by over 100,000 Labour Party and affiliate members - all the indications are they want him to remain. Yet because one hundred and odd Labour MPs want him gone you think he should resign 'in the interest of unity'. It is folk like you who are fucking up the Labour Party. This. All day this. Quite why they can't see it is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cream Cheese Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Just now, BerwickMad said: Look at his popularity ratings. Read what people say about him. Listen to people knocking on doors in places like Leeds and Sunderland. This utter delusion that he will change the mentality of an electorate who have hardened against him is ridiculous. He's convincing nobody outside his narrow support base. It's not him they've hardened against. It's the party as a whole. The wider electorate look at the Labour Party right now and see an unelectable party. No because Corbyn is leader, but because of the sheer division being stirred up by the PLP. If they got their act together and turned their attacks against the opposition instead of on themselves, then they can start looking like a more competent party again. But they won't do this. Because they would rather have Theresa May in Downing Street than Jeremy Corbyn. As her policies are closer to where they are than Jeremy Corbyn's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmothecat Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 That is undoubtedly one of the most bizarre posts I have read on this thread. Corbyn was elected by over 100,000 Labour Party and affiliate members - all the indications are they want him to remain. Yet because one hundred and odd Labour MPs want him gone you think he should resign 'in the interest of unity'. It is folk like you who are fucking up the Labour Party. Yes. He cannot command the respect of the vast majority of his own MPs. He isn't fit for the job and his stubbornness is killing the party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cream Cheese Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 1 minute ago, jmothecat said: Yes. He cannot command the respect of the vast majority of his own MPs. He isn't fit for the job and his stubbornness is killing the party. He commands the respect of his members and was voted in as leader through a democratic election. The MPs should respect him, even if he doesn't share their hard right views. If they can't respect him, then they should step down and let somebody else in who will. If you don't respect your boss at work, you don't demand a boss replacement. You either put up and shut up, or you look for another job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmothecat Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 He commands the respect of his members and was voted in as leader through a democratic election. The MPs should respect him, even if he doesn't share their hard right views. If they can't respect him, then they should step down and let somebody else in who will. If you don't respect your boss at work, you don't demand a boss replacement. You either put up and shut up, or you look for another job. Why? They were voted in to represent their constituents not the party membership. And it isn't all of the party membership anyway.Corbyn cannot win a general election, and there is no point in a Labour Party who can't win an election. He needs to step down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cream Cheese Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 2 minutes ago, jmothecat said: Why? They were voted in to represent their constituents not the party membership. And it isn't all of the party membership anyway. Corbyn cannot win a general election, and there is no point in a Labour Party who can't win an election. He needs to step down. How do you know they are representing their constituents? You don't know what the majority of Labour supporting constituents are thinking right now. You just presume to know. No, "Labour" can't win a general election right now. the PLP are making damn sure of that by creating all of this unnecessary chaos. Leaders step down to prevent the embarrassment of defeat. As i've already stated, Corbyn doesn't have that problem to deal with. He has all the support he needs to continue on as Labour leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerwickMad Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 It's not him they've hardened against. It's the party as a whole. The wider electorate look at the Labour Party right now and see an unelectable party. No because Corbyn is leader, but because of the sheer division being stirred up by the PLP. If they got their act together and turned their attacks against the opposition instead of on themselves, then they can start looking like a more competent party again. But they won't do this. Because they would rather have Theresa May in Downing Street than Jeremy Corbyn. As her policies are closer to where they are than Jeremy Corbyn's. Again, utter delusion. Labour's popularity has been going down for a long time. Corbyn isn't providing the answers. People on the doorstep are citing him as one of the reasons not to vote Labour, as I said, in northern cities like Leeds and Sunderland. People didn't think Labour provided the answers at the last couple of elections. The evidence suggests they think it less so now. Corbyn is hugely unpopular. Many Labour voters would prefer May as Prime Minister, because they dislike Corbyn. Where are these millions needed to win Labour an election being convinced? Total and utter delusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerwickMad Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 How do you know they are representing their constituents? You don't know what the majority of Labour supporting constituents are thinking right now. You just presume to know. Bizarre. I'm sure they have a better idea than any of us, you know, considering they were elected by them and have campaigned in their constituencies for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 The reason they'd rather have May as prime minister is because she's a lot closer to the values that people like you want to see in the Labour party. But the problem with that is they can just vote for the Tories anyways. So that's what they'll do. And that'll continue to be the case until Labour decide to actually stand against the Tories. They're not interested in doing their jobs at the moment though. Anything Labour does is focused within the party. And yet Corbyn gets the blame for their problems. Not the hate filled idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cream Cheese Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 4 minutes ago, BerwickMad said: Again, utter delusion. Labour's popularity has been going down for a long time. Corbyn isn't providing the answers. People on the doorstep are citing him as one of the reasons not to vote Labour, as I said, in northern cities like Leeds and Sunderland. People didn't think Labour provided the answers at the last couple of elections. The evidence suggests they think it less so now. Corbyn is hugely unpopular. Many Labour voters would prefer May as Prime Minister, because they dislike Corbyn. Where are these millions needed to win Labour an election being convinced? Total and utter delusion. You can say a lot of things, but you can hardly say that he is unpopular. He's had a lot of unwarranted personal attacks against him by the PLP and their right wing buddies in the MSM. Yet, people are still signing up to support him. These people are seeing straight through the propaganda machine. I don't believe for one moment that you have been around the doorsteps campaigning for Labour. I reckon if you have been going around any doorsteps, it would have been to bad mouth Corbyn to old people who rely on the BBC for all of the "facts". The evidence shows that Labour on a whole are unpopular right now. None of it shows that Corbyn is to blame for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 1 hour ago, jmothecat said: Yes. He cannot command the respect of the vast majority of his own MPs. He isn't fit for the job and his stubbornness is killing the party. You don't need a different leader, you need different MPs. Ones that respect that they are only there because of the Labour Party. Fortunately the vast majority of your party membership do not subscribe to the view that their wishes should be subservient to a couple of hundred MPs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cream Cheese Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 7 minutes ago, BerwickMad said: Bizarre. I'm sure they have a better idea than any of us, you know, considering they were elected by them and have campaigned in their constituencies for years. Funny. I've never once had my local MP or any of his/her campaigners come to my door. I get the odd leaflet with things on it that I couldn't disagree with more. How many people do you think actually bother to figure out what their MPs are all about, as opposed to those who back a party merely through tribalism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 9 minutes ago, BerwickMad said: Again, utter delusion. Labour's popularity has been going down for a long time. Corbyn isn't providing the answers. People on the doorstep are citing him as one of the reasons not to vote Labour, as I said, in northern cities like Leeds and Sunderland. People didn't think Labour provided the answers at the last couple of elections. The evidence suggests they think it less so now. Corbyn is hugely unpopular. Many Labour voters would prefer May as Prime Minister, because they dislike Corbyn. Where are these millions needed to win Labour an election being convinced? Total and utter delusion. I think that on door knocking, this is probably one of the easiest ways to justify not voting Labour. Get rid of the leader and I would bet that the next time the people are asked, there will be another reason. The Labour party are a complete shambles, they were before Corbyn was elected and since not getting their own candidates elected, the MPs have acted like 2 year olds (apologies to 2 year olds). As someone that is involved in Politics, I would have thought that you would understand that the strength of the Labour party is not in the leader but in the policies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerwickMad Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 You can say a lot of things, but you can hardly say that he is unpopular. He's had a lot of unwarranted personal attacks against him by the PLP and their right wing buddies in the MSM. Yet, people are still signing up to support him. These people are seeing straight through the propaganda machine. I don't believe for one moment that you have been around the doorsteps campaigning for Labour. I reckon if you have been going around any doorsteps, it would have been to bad mouth Corbyn to old people who rely on the BBC for all of the "facts". The evidence shows that Labour on a whole are unpopular right now. None of it shows that Corbyn is to blame for this. He has the lowest popularity rating of any leader in history, so yes, I can say he's unpopular.I didn't say I had been around the doorsteps. I speak to people that have, hence me using Leeds and Sunderland as examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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