Exit Negotiations.

[Colkitto]

It's not so simple. What about Scotland's share of the national debt? What currency would iScotland use? Would rUK impose border controls or tariffs if Scotland refused to a Trident deal or agree to take on its share of the debts?

 

National debt and assets due to Scotland would be concluded in exit negotiations. 

 

There is not a hope in hell of an SNP government agreeing a deal to keep Trident.

 

I personally believe the EU will play hard ball on trade deals. Any cross border deals with rUK and Scotland will be sought after and the last thing rUK would do is put obstacles in the way like border controls or tariffs.    

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I would expect the actual EU negotiations to take a couple of weeks. After all, it had very little impact in our lives and hardly any of our existing legislation came from the EU. Easy peasy

Only 30,000 pages to go through . . .

[Bishop Briggs]

I would expect the actual EU negotiations to take a couple of weeks. After all, it had very little impact in our lives and hardly any of our existing legislation came from the EU. Easy peasy

 

It should not be too difficult legally if common sense, rather than spiteful vengeance, prevails in Brussels. A lot of the laws arising from EU legislation will be kept unless the Government decides there is a need to repeal or replace them. 

 

There is also the possibility of remaining in the Single Market/EEA post Brexit. The Governments in the Member States must ensure that the Commission delivers a smooth and stable exit process that will benefit everyone.

[Antlion]

It should not be too difficult legally if common sense, rather than spiteful vengeance, prevails in Brussels. A lot of the laws arising from EU legislation will be kept unless the Government decides there is a need to repeal or replace them.

There is also the possibility of remaining in the Single Market/EEA post Brexit. The Governments in the Member States must ensure that the Commission delivers a smooth and stable exit process that will benefit everyone.

Would that be the same EU and member states that have been derided as corrupt, and which would act out of vindictive self-interest towards Scotland if it tried to become an independent member state?

[Bishop Briggs]

Would that be the same EU and member states that have been derided as corrupt, and which would act out of vindictive self-interest towards Scotland if it tried to become an independent member state?

 

Not all the Member States are corrupt. Several have seen Britain as an ally in taking the EU in a pro-market direction. The EU has always taken the view that an independent Scotland would have to apply for Membership under Article 49 rather than Article 48 as claimed by the SNP. That position has not changed, as Sturgeon will quickly find out when tries to "protect" Scotland's EU Membership whilst it remains in the UK.

[Antlion]

Not all the Member States are corrupt. Several have seen Britain as an ally in taking the EU in a pro-market direction. The EU has always taken the view that an independent Scotland would have to apply for Membership under Article 49 rather than Article 48 as claimed by the SNP. That position has not changed, as Sturgeon will quickly find out when tries to "protect" Scotland's EU Membership whilst it remains in the UK.

And if Scotland elects to seek independent membership of the EU as the UK leaves, will the process be as smooth and stable as you're confidently predicting "Brexit" itself will be?

[LongTimeLurker]

Not all the Member States are corrupt. Several have seen Britain as an ally in taking the EU in a pro-market direction. The EU has always taken the view that an independent Scotland would have to apply for Membership under Article 49 rather than Article 48 as claimed by the SNP. That position has not changed, as Sturgeon will quickly find out when tries to "protect" Scotland's EU Membership whilst it remains in the UK.

 

Denmark consists of three realms, only one of which is in the EU. Scenarios like that are unlikely to happen for Scotland, but there is a possible precedent:

 

https://opendemocracy.net/uk/adam-ramsay/reverse-greenland-letting-scotland-stay

[strichener]

And if Scotland elects to seek independent membership of the EU as the UK leaves, will the process be as smooth and stable as you're confidently predicting "Brexit" itself will be?

Scotland cannot seek independent membership of the EU.

[Bishop Briggs]

And if Scotland elects to seek independent membership of the EU as the UK leaves, will the process be as smooth and stable as you're confidently predicting "Brexit" itself will be?

 

It should be reasonably smooth if Scotland's post-independence economic performance is solid and stable. The EU will want to examine several years of post-independence performance. If Sturgeon thinks that she negotiate an independent Scotland's entry to coincide with rUK's exit, she's deluded. 

[Antlion]

Scotland cannot seek independent membership of the EU.

Uh - of course it can, if it leaves the UK. Bishop Briggs has of course claimed that other member states would try and prevent Scotland being allowed in as a sovereign nation (even though Brexit has killed the self-interested reasons why). But he also expects us to believe these other nations will all bend over backwards to ensure a smooth and stable exit for the UK. Apparently the EU is sensible and rational when required to be for one's argument.

[strichener]

Uh - of course it can, if it leaves the UK. Bishop Briggs has of course claimed that other member states would try and prevent Scotland being allowed in as a sovereign nation (even though Brexit has killed the self-interested reasons why). But he also expects us to believe these other nations will all bend over backwards to ensure a smooth and stable exit for the UK. Apparently the EU is sensible and rational when required to be for one's argument.

 

Do you think we can negotiate entry to the EU at the same time as negotiating exit from the UK.  I cannot see that there will not be some cross-over between the two that will make this exceedingly difficult. 

[welshbairn]

Scotland cannot seek independent membership of the EU.

 

This is a unique situation, there are no cast iron rules to cover it. And existing rules can be changed. That's why I hope the Scottish Government is planning to send out envoys to all the member nations as soon as they have a worked out strategy.

[Antlion]

Do you think we can negotiate entry to the EU at the same time as negotiating exit from the UK. I cannot see that there will not be some cross-over between the two that will make this exceedingly difficult.

No idea - but if this friendly, receptive, rational new EU we're talking about here is involved, surely the answer has to be "yes"?

[sparky88]

I'd suggest David Cameron. Looking for a job soon and has an excellent track record of negotiating with Europe.

i suspect Jean Claude junker is praying for this outcome given he stitched up Cameron the last time negotiations took place

[Bishop Briggs]

Denmark consists of three realms, only one of which is in the EU. Scenarios like that are unlikely to happen for Scotland, but there is a possible precedent:

 

https://opendemocracy.net/uk/adam-ramsay/reverse-greenland-letting-scotland-stay

 

There are other examples. The Canary Islands are part of Spain but not in the EU. There would have to be a deal with Westminster for Scotland to remain in the EU whilst part of the UK.

 

I can't see that happening, especially under a Tory government, but it's theoretically possible. It's far easier for such deals to be done with geographically separate regions such as islands.

[sparky88]

Alright I was a bit hyperbolic there nato countries I meant Scotland has no need to accept that with ruk and there 7thno ggeopolitical imperative for it either except ruk has ow hereeelse to put them which wouldn't be our roblem when independent

'a bit hyperbolic' = talking complete and utter pish

That map is probably a decent guide as to where else the uk could put nuclear weapons.

[Bishop Briggs]

Uh - of course it can, if it leaves the UK. Bishop Briggs has of course claimed that other member states would try and prevent Scotland being allowed in as a sovereign nation (even though Brexit has killed the self-interested reasons why). But he also expects us to believe these other nations will all bend over backwards to ensure a smooth and stable exit for the UK. Apparently the EU is sensible and rational when required to be for one's argument.

 

That's not true. I said that the EU would try to stop Scotland leaving the UK whilst it remained in the EU. It did not want to set a precedent for Catalonia and Flanders. The EU would treat an application from an independent Scotland, post Brexit, just like any other. That means opening and closing all 35 chapters in the formal negotiation process.

[LongTimeLurker]

There are other examples. The Canary Islands are part of Spain but not in the EU. There would have to be a deal with Westminster for Scotland to remain in the EU whilst part of the UK.

 

I can't see that happening, especially under a Tory government, but it's theoretically possible. It's far easier for such deals to be done with geographically separate regions such as islands.

 

Agree with almost all of that, but think you'll find that the Canary Islands are part of the EU and it's only on VAT related issues they are left outside:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_value_added_tax#EU_VAT_area

 

Think Nicola Sturgeon will go through the motions of exploring whether it can be done as part of laying the groundwork for a second referendum.

[sparky88]

There are other examples. The Canary Islands are part of Spain but not in the EU. There would have to be a deal with Westminster for Scotland to remain in the EU whilst part of the UK.

I can't see that happening, especially under a Tory government, but it's theoretically possible. It's far easier for such deals to be done with geographically separate regions such as islands.

There will already be an unmanned land border with a nation in the EU (r Ireland) which leave has said will continue. I don't see shy Scotland would be different.

[Antlion]

That's not true. I said that the EU would try to stop Scotland leaving the UK whilst it remained in the EU. It did not want to set a precedent for Catalonia and Flanders. The EU would treat an application from an independent Scotland, post Brexit, just like any other. That means opening and closing all 35 chapters in the formal negotiation process.

But the EU isn't worried about the precedents that "Brexit" will set now, and will instead ensure an amicable, smooth and happy separation?