Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[HTG]

I just don't know how Norway achieves that surplus. Too wee, too poor, oil running out etc. I suppose they've saved a few quid by not rimming American arse in the middle east and not channeling a bucket full of cash into nuclear weapons. Still and all, how are they coping with not being part of a country like England? 

[RedRob72]

Why?

How do suggest we tackle that? Perhaps address the reasons that the UK spend on welfare payments (as a % of GDP) has far outstripped our European competitors, over the past 20 years, despite well documented measures of austerity?

[Baxter Parp]

4 minutes ago, RedRob72 said:

How do suggest we tackle that? Perhaps address the reasons that the UK spend on welfare payments (as a % of GDP) has far outstripped our European competitors, over the past 20 years, despite well documented measures of austerity?

Yeah, that's the propaganda.

[williemillersmoustache]

6 minutes ago, RedRob72 said:

How do suggest we tackle that? Perhaps address the reasons that the UK spend on welfare payments (as a % of GDP) has far outstripped our European competitors, over the past 20 years, despite well documented measures of austerity?

I'm disappointed you didn't blame foreigners there too, feel a bit cheated it was just the poor.

[Theo Snelders]

5 minutes ago, RedRob72 said:

How do suggest we tackle that? Perhaps address the reasons that the UK spend on welfare payments (as a % of GDP) has far outstripped our European competitors, over the past 20 years, despite well documented measures of austerity?

Norway have a high level of taxation so it can look after it's poor, disabled, and underprivilliged- as well as being able to give it's elderly a decent pension. They also didn't spunk all the revenue they had from oil when they were swimming in it. Totally different from how we've been here.

[RedRob72]

I'm disappointed you didn't blame foreigners there too, feel a bit cheated it was just the poor.

A predictable assumption..

Not at all, how many other countries 'subsidise' Big Business with the level of low income support provided by the UK Government for example.

It appeared here btw, taken from OECD figures according to the article

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10574376/Graphic-Britain-outstrips-Europe-on-welfare-spending.html

[williemillersmoustache]

1 minute ago, RedRob72 said:

A predictable assumption..
Not at all, how many other countries 'subsidise' Big Businesses with the level of low income support provided by the UK Government for example.

It appeared here btw, taken from OECD figures according to the article

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10574376/Graphic-Britain-outstrips-Europe-on-welfare-spending.html

Sorry, you are blaming foreigners and I missed it?

[Baxter Parp]

7 minutes ago, Theo Snelders said:

Norway have a high level of taxation so it can look after it's poor, disabled, and underprivilliged- as well as being able to give it's elderly a decent pension. They also didn't spunk all the revenue they had from oil when they were swimming in it. Totally different from how we've been here.

You can afford more tax when your average monthly wage is £4000 instead of £2,292

[Baxter Parp]

4 minutes ago, RedRob72 said:

A predictable assumption..

Not at all, how many other countries 'subsidise' Big Business with the level of low income support provided by the UK Government for example.

It appeared here btw, taken from OECD figures according to the article

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10574376/Graphic-Britain-outstrips-Europe-on-welfare-spending.html

I already gave you the figures, the UK is average across the OECD.

[RedRob72]

Sorry, you are blaming foreigners and I missed it?

Neither!! I simply used our burgeoning welfare budget (35%) as a contributor ( in its many forms) to our deficit from tax revues received to government expenditure. Do we have the same controls in place as our competitive neighbours, Germany for example?

[Theo Snelders]

22 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

You can afford more tax when your average monthly wage is £4000 instead of £2,292

Fair point, but we need to get priorities in order. Why do HMRC strike sweetheart deals with big business and let them off with huge amounts of corporation tax? That money could go a fair distance. Interesting to note that Iceland is another counrty in the black. When the banking crisis happened in 2008 they refused to use the taxpayer money to keep the banks afloat, stuck the bankers in jail, and started again.

Whilst I fully realise the economy is extremely important, we've too much of a hard on for banks and big business. Our govenment (Westminster) allows us to be shafted.

[Bishop Briggs]

4 hours ago, Baxter Parp said:

Why?

Because large budget deficits are a recent development and they are not sustainable. Budget surpluses are desirable so that the country can begin pay off its accumulated debts. An independent Scotland would have to agree to take on debt as part of the divorce agreement with rUK.

The IFS analysis is here - http://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/7652

"In contrast, OBR forecasts for the UK as a whole are effectively unchanged – the budget deficit for the UK as a whole is still expected to be 4.0% of GDP in 2015–16, despite the reduction in North Sea revenue forecasts. Scotland’s projected deficit in 2015–16 is now 4.6% of GDP higher than that for the UK as a whole. In cash terms this is equivalent to a gap of £7.6 billion. Unless oil and gas revenues were to rebound, onshore revenues were to grow more quickly than in the rest of the UK, or government spending in Scotland were cut, a similar sized gap would remain in the years ahead."

https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/8218

"However in the case of Scotland, our projections are for a larger budget deficit in each and every year. For instance, our latest projections imply a budget deficit of around 9.4% of national income in the coming financial year, 2016-17, compared to 6.8% in our previous projections."

Even allowing for greater freedom (especially on taxation policy) post independence, these figures are alarming.

[ayrmad]

15 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

Because large budget deficits are a recent development and they are not sustainable. Budget surpluses are desirable so that the country can begin pay off its accumulated debts. An independent Scotland would have to agree to take on debt as part of the divorce agreement with rUK.

The IFS analysis is here - http://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/7652

"In contrast, OBR forecasts for the UK as a whole are effectively unchanged – the budget deficit for the UK as a whole is still expected to be 4.0% of GDP in 2015–16, despite the reduction in North Sea revenue forecasts. Scotland’s projected deficit in 2015–16 is now 4.6% of GDP higher than that for the UK as a whole. In cash terms this is equivalent to a gap of £7.6 billion. Unless oil and gas revenues were to rebound, onshore revenues were to grow more quickly than in the rest of the UK, or government spending in Scotland were cut, a similar sized gap would remain in the years ahead."

https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/8218

"However in the case of Scotland, our projections are for a larger budget deficit in each and every year. For instance, our latest projections imply a budget deficit of around 9.4% of national income in the coming financial year, 2016-17, compared to 6.8% in our previous projections."

Even allowing for greater freedom (especially on taxation policy) post independence, these figures are alarming.

I find it alarming that a small country has so little to show for 4 decades of oil, it's even more alarming that so many put so much of the blame on Scotland and it's people.

[doulikefish]

3 minutes ago, ayrmad said:

I find it alarming that a small country has so little to show for 4 decades of oil, it's even more alarming that so many put so much of the blame on Scotland and it's people.

I find it alarming people still believe in the the obr forecasts.Have they ever been correct about anything????

[Peppino Impastato]

Worth pointing out we've had more oil than Norway since it was discovered,  and Norway is the richest country in the world purely because of oil.  Guess what an independent Scotland would have been over the same time period. 

[Peppino Impastato]

Also worth pointing out one of the campaign slogans against devolution in 1979 shouted from the rooftops by many including Alistair Darling was 'gone by 1990' as in the oil will run out by then. 

[ayrmad]

6 minutes ago, doulikefish said:

I find it alarming people still believe in the the obr forecasts.Have they ever been correct about anything????

It's more alarming when people attach the independent tag to most of these organisations.

I'm sure that any organisation that churns out 1000's of forecasts every year must have had a success somewhere along the line.

 

[ayrmad]

5 minutes ago, Peppino Impastato said:

Also worth pointing out one of the campaign slogans against devolution in 1979 shouted from the rooftops by many including Alistair Darling was 'gone by 1990' as in the oil will run out by then. 

We know they've wasted 40 years of oil and we still prefer to allow them to manage it, remarkable.

[doulikefish]

Just now, ayrmad said:

It's more alarming when people attach the independent tag to most of these organisations.

I'm sure that any organisation that churns out 1000's of forecasts every year must have had a success somewhere along the line.

 

I think the usual line trotted out is " the obr has re forecasted and is now saying blah blah blah"

[Antlion]

3 minutes ago, Peppino Impastato said:

Also worth pointing out one of the campaign slogans against devolution in 1979 shouted from the rooftops by many including Alistair Darling was 'gone by 1990' as in the oil will run out by then. 

Was that roughly the same time that former socialist Lord Darling of Roulanish, having realised that he was possessed of all the personality of a dialling tone, decided to spend the rest of his life as a really shit version of Cyril Sneer?

Of all the personalities he could try and ape to make up for his own lack, I guess the money-grubbing p***k one has been most successful.