The DA Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 5 hours ago, Wee Willie said: So you'd be happy tae pay a subsidy of millions tae Mrs Windsor and her cronies. The Queen, aristocrats and Saudi prince among recipients of EU farm subsidies https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/sep/29/the-queen-aristocrats-and-saudi-prince-among-recipients-of-eu-farm-subsidies At least one in five of the top 100 recipients of CAP subsidies in the UK last year were farm businesses owned or controlled by members of aristocratic families, an investigation by environmental campaign group Greenpeace found. They include the Queen, the Duke of Westminster, the Duke of Northumberland, Sir Richard Sutton, the Earl of Moray, Baron Phillimore and family, and the Earl of Plymouth. ...The government has promised to maintain CAP subsidies post-Brexit until 2020 while a domestic system is put in place. Hannah Martin, of Greenpeace UK’s Brexit response team, said: “It is untenable for the government to justify keeping a farming policy which allows a billionaire to breed racehorses on land subsidised by taxpayers. It’s clear that there cannot be a business-as-usual approach to farm subsidies after we leave the EU. Sandringham Farms, the estate owned by the Queen, received £557,707, while Grosvenor Farms Limited, which farms the Duke of Westminster’s estate, raked in £437,434. The billionaire landowner died in August and left his fortune to his 25-year-old son. The top 100 received £87.9m in agricultural subsidies last year, of which £61.2m came from the single payment scheme, where the size of the land owned largely determines the grant amount. Greenpeace said this was more than what was paid to the bottom 55,119 recipients in the single payment scheme combined. ________________ and here's me thinking the common agricultural policy was set up tae aid the less well-off farmers. I'm a silly willie I'm not saying we SHOULD do it, just that the money seems to be there to continue doing what they're currently doing. No one, not even the farmers, seems to be questioning where the current subsidy money would go instead. Or maybe they are and I'm just not listening to the right programmes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 34 minutes ago, Randy Giles said: I'd imagine that it won't just be the usual parties fighting for votes. Plus, you'd have more chance of a better Labour party away from the shackles of the puppet masters. Who else is gonnae join the fray ? you'd have more chance of a better Labour party away from the shackles of the puppet masters. With or without Kezia? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DublinMagyar Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Who else is gonnae join the fray ?you'd have more chance of a better Labour party away from the shackles of the puppet masters. With or without Kezia? Kez will given a major role in any independent government. Minister in charge of cardboard cutouts 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 6 minutes ago, The DA said: I'm not saying we SHOULD do it, just that the money seems to be there to continue doing what they're currently doing. No one, not even the farmers, seems to be questioning where the current subsidy money would go instead. Or maybe they are and I'm just not listening to the right programmes. But that's like saying the moneys there so lets pay for Trident, lets build HS2 (but only in England). Perhaps the farmers that matter are coining it in and dinnae want tae upset the apple-cart. You surely agree that no matter the scheme, giving millions of tax-payers money to millionaires cannae be a good thing. I've got an idea - let's means-test it and see who pleads poverty. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DA Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Just now, Wee Willie said: But that's like saying the moneys there so lets pay for Trident, lets build HS2 (but only in England). Perhaps the farmers that matter are coining it in and dinnae want tae upset the apple-cart. You surely agree that no matter the scheme, giving millions of tax-payers money to millionaires cannae be a good thing. I've got an idea - let's means-test it and see who pleads poverty. Totally agree. I'm not getting my message over - my fault. It appears that Brexit is, understandably, being used as an opportunity to re-allocate the budget. Have the government been honest enough to come out and say 'we could keep the old subsidies and allocations going and still have however many millions per week left over to allocate where we want, but we've decided to put everything back in the pot and start again - so tough shit fermers.'? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Who else is gonnae join the fray ?you'd have more chance of a better Labour party away from the shackles of the puppet masters. With or without Kezia? I don't know who will join the fray. I do know that there will be political differences brought together by a bigger purpose in the SNP. The SNP will still exist beyond indy, but it won't be in the same form as it's in now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Aye?I'm not convinced SLab wouldn't try to fuck things up just for the 'told you so's' Well it is a worry. But a "maybe" is better than the certainty of Westminster inspired nosedive. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, Randy Giles said: I don't know who will join the fray. I do know that there will be political differences brought together by a bigger purpose in the SNP. The SNP will still exist beyond indy, but it won't be in the same form as it's in now. Why should it exist in the same form? It's biggest selling point - Independence will have been delivered. Probably it's second selling point - Trident would surely be for the chop. That would leave normal issues that an independent Scotland can argue over: Monarchy - Aye or Naw NATO - In or Oot EU - In or Oot and I personally would like a referendum on whether Scotland should hold referendums on the big issues like monarchy, NATO, EU et al 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 I never said it should exist in the same form. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 This nonsense about a 'queue' to join the EU... We need to be independent though. http://www.referendum.ed.ac.uk/18022014-scotland-and-eu/ Quote There is no ‘queue’ to get into the EU. Applicants are admitted as and when they are ready. Turkey first tried to get in 50 years ago, so if there were a queue they would be at the head; but 22 other states have got in before them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirkyblue2 Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 12 minutes ago, Crùbag said: This nonsense about a 'queue' to join the EU... We need to be independent though. http://www.referendum.ed.ac.uk/18022014-scotland-and-eu/ How will the leave voters be convinced to vote for independence including SNP members and supporters if Scotland wants to join the EU or will we have 2 referendums? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 2 hours ago, Randy Giles said: I suspect that come Indy, the SNP will become a total non-entity. This is interesting. There will be a load of political capital to be gained by whoever is seen as the successor party. That alone makes me think the SNP will probably not splinter as quickly or easily as people imagine it will. Of course the only way to find out for sure is to no shite it this time and vote for independence. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Randy Giles said: I never said it should exist in the same form. You are right and I apologise 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 45 minutes ago, NotThePars said: This is interesting. There will be a load of political capital to be gained by whoever is seen as the successor party. That alone makes me think the SNP will probably not splinter as quickly or easily as people imagine it will. Of course the only way to find out for sure is to no shite it this time and vote for independence. I couldn't have said it any better 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 On 10/02/2017 at 14:15, Randy Giles said: I suspect that come Indy, the SNP will become a total non-entity. In much the same way that UKIP ceased to exist once the UK voted to leave the EU. After independence, the SNP would continue to exist to ensure that it was not some watered down semi-independence. Can you name any country that gained independence where the leader of the ruling party then said: "Job done. My opponents can run the country now - I am away fishing." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 3 minutes ago, Fullerene said: In much the same way that UKIP ceased to exist once the UK voted to leave the EU. After independence, the SNP would continue to exist to ensure that it was not some watered down semi-independence. Can you name any country that gained independence where the leader of the ruling party then said: "Job done. My opponents can run the country now - I am away fishing." The difference being is that they are very much a glorified BNP, which is other than talking about leaving the EU, and is also a platform for bigotry. Which their members will stand by regardless of whether we're in the EU or not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSpreader Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 33 minutes ago, Randy Giles said: The difference being is that they are very much a glorified BNP, which is other than talking about leaving the EU, and is also a platform for bigotry. Which their members will stand by regardless of whether we're in the EU or not. I don't get the impression that UKIP are anything like the BNP..... The BNP never got more than a handful of votes whereas UKIP get millions of votes and most of those are former Labour votes. The BNP could never appeal to the working class like UKIP does. You dismiss UKIP too lightly........Just pointing that out doesn't make me a UKIP supporter btw but I think I understand the motives of the English working class better than most on here. The English and Welsh working/ under class are driven to vote UKIP not through racism, as you would conveniently love to believe, but because Labour has abandoned them , Corbyn doesn't understand them and there is no-one else to represent them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Can you name any country that gained independence where the leader of the ruling party then said: "Job done. My opponents can run the country now - I am away fishing." De Gaulle took a decade off after the liberation of France before taking the presidency.There will be a more relevant example out there but that was the first to come to mind.Do I win £5 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I could see the SNP splitting into the Civic side and an anti EU Ethnic faction. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirkyblue2 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Hopefully they will implode. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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