Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[new kyd in town]

19 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Those who oppose a second EU referendum miss the point - the first was only ever advisory - a second one would need to be binding.

DC spent £9.3 m telling the people the Gov would implement the result of the Ref.  Who is ultimately sovereign the people or the law? You can change a law. It's more difficult to change the people.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Detournement said:

Imagine this.

52% of Scots vote for independence in Indyref2. The UK government responds by refusing to negotiate any change in the status quo. The BBC and media run daily negative stories on every bulletin about independence for two years. Would anyone on here be calling for a second referendum?

Voting "leave" should not have created a problem, as a plan / infrastructure / logistics should ALL have been explored and have been prepared for implementation on the event of the "leave" vote being chosen by the majority, however, the real crime is that none of this was done back then and even worse, it's not been done in the past 2 years either.

As we stand right now, the promised outcome of "leave" prior to the referendum has no chance whatsoever of being delivered and in fact is a fantasy dreamed up by a few who were attempting to save or further their own careers, as such, someone in power should have had the balls to stand up and say "look, we've failed you and we're not prepared for this", as opposed to just hoping and praying that it will all turn out ok in the end.

Ultimately it's the future prosperity of this country that we're talking about and not some childish game of point scoring but sadly that's what we've got.

As for the "elites", as has been said, this is just another 21st century soundbite as unfortunately we've got the rich, powerful and corrupt fighting on opposite sides so it's not quite as simple as identifying a bunch of these despised characters and then supporting the opposite viewpoint. If only.

The bottom line is, it's a shambles......................

 

 

[Dons_1988]

Do leave voters still claim they knew exactly what they were voting for?

[Detournement]

1 hour ago, Bairnardo said:

See folk that talk about this mystery "elite", they are almost exclusively parroting bullshit spouted by the likes of Trump and his supporters.

If you think Farage, Johnson and Rees-Mogg are anything other than "elite" then f**k knows what to tell you.

Try to lay off the substanceless buzzwords though. It just makes you look fucking ridiculous.

Aye because no one talked about elites before Trump.

Those three are clearly part of the societal elite but within that group they are in the minority on Brexit. The majority is the side of Blair, Cameron, the CBI, DoI, the City etc.

 

[Granny Danger]

The only outcome that will ensure a hard border in Ireland is a Hard Brexit.  It’s looking increasingly likely that is where we are headed.

The only people who understand the implications of this and still really want it is the likes of Mogg.  Many voters claim they want it but that’s because they don’t understand the implications.

 

[Bairnardo]

Aye because no one talked about elites before Trump.
Those three are clearly part of the societal elite but within that group they are in the minority on Brexit. The majority is the side of Blair, Cameron, the CBI, DoI, the City etc.
 

Some more pretty generic terms there.

Who is the elite?

Eh...... The City

[Jacksgranda]

39 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

Voting "leave" should not have created a problem, as a plan / infrastructure / logistics should ALL have been explored and have been prepared for implementation on the event of the "leave" vote being chosen by the majority, however, the real crime is that none of this was done back then and even worse, it's not been done in the past 2 years either.

As we stand right now, the promised outcome of "leave" prior to the referendum has no chance whatsoever of being delivered and in fact is a fantasy dreamed up by a few who were attempting to save or further their own careers, as such, someone in power should have had the balls to stand up and say "look, we've failed you and we're not prepared for this", as opposed to just hoping and praying that it will all turn out ok in the end.

Ultimately it's the future prosperity of this country that we're talking about and not some childish game of point scoring but sadly that's what we've got.

As for the "elites", as has been said, this is just another 21st century soundbite as unfortunately we've got the rich, powerful and corrupt fighting on opposite sides so it's not quite as simple as identifying a bunch of these despised characters and then supporting the opposite viewpoint. If only.

The bottom line is, it's a shambles......................

 

 

Very much this.

[Detournement]

Just now, Bairnardo said:

Some more pretty generic terms there.

Who is the elite?

Eh...... The City

Owen Jones wrote a good book about that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Establishment:_And_How_They_Get_Away_with_It

Three quid on Amazon. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Establishment-how-they-get-away/dp/0141974990/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1541437074&sr=8-1&keywords=owen+jones

The City refers to the financial services industry based in the City Of London.

 

[ICTJohnboy]

46 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Do leave voters still claim they knew exactly what they were voting for?

 

They do here in the Burnley area.

"It's all that immigration mate....It's got out of hand now. They only come here for the benefits and the free health service. They get the best of the available council houses - half of them can't speak English, it's just got right out of hand now, mate - know what I mean?"

Etc, etc, etc, etc........yawn, yawn, yawn.

 

 

Edited November 5, 2018 by ICTJohnboy

[DrewDon]

You should only really call a referendum like this if the governing party supports the 'change option', and can be held at least somewhat accountable for the official change position campaign. 

[Cerberus]

1 hour ago, Dons_1988 said:

Do leave voters still claim they knew exactly what they were voting for?

Getting back to being the British Empire.

[NotThePars]

You should only really call a referendum like this if the governing party supports the 'change option', and can be held at least somewhat accountable for the official change position campaign. 

You shouldn’t really hold a binary referendum at all on an issue as complex as the European Union. Was at a talk with James Foley last week and he made the point, that I’d kinda forgotten about, that David Cameron pushed for a binary option in 2014, got arrogant, and fucked it at the next one.

[zidane's child]

1 hour ago, Dons_1988 said:

Do leave voters still claim they knew exactly what they were voting for?

Some of the stubborn ones still claim they do but in reality, they were sold a dream.

Very much a case like the Monorail episode in The Simpson's

[Granny Danger]

4 minutes ago, zidane's child said:

Some of the stubborn ones still claim they do but in reality, they were sold a dream.

Very much a case like the Monorail episode in The Simpson's

We will only have a second referendum if Shelbyville do.

 

 

[welshbairn]

HS2 looks like it's falling apart.

[GTG_03]

1 hour ago, NotThePars said:

 

You shouldn’t really hold a binary referendum at all on an issue as complex as the European Union. Was at a talk with James Foley last week and he made the point, that I’d kinda forgotten about, that David Cameron pushed for a binary option in 2014, got arrogant, and fucked it at the next one.

 

David Cameron has  lot to answer for. If, as looking likely the UK is left isolated and poorer with Scotland leaving it's largely down to him being so weak. 

An actual devomax option in 2014 would have won, and he didn't have to call a referendum on the EU, he got arrogant and afraid of losing voters to UKIP.

Then when he lost he fucked off sharpish. The dish faced coward.

[Detournement]

1 hour ago, NotThePars said:

 

You shouldn’t really hold a binary referendum at all on an issue as complex as the European Union. Was at a talk with James Foley last week and he made the point, that I’d kinda forgotten about, that David Cameron pushed for a binary option in 2014, got arrogant, and fucked it at the next one.

Is leaving the EU more complex than leaving the UK?

 

[ICTJohnboy]

16 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Is leaving the EU more complex than leaving the UK?

 

 

Good question.

I still nurse a faint hope that at the end of all this fuckup Scotland might get to remain in the EU.

[welshbairn]

11 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Is leaving the EU more complex than leaving the UK?

 

Yes, 27 countries to deal with rather than one. If we'd voted for indy last time it would have been fairly straightforward, if Brexit happens it will be a similar problem to Ireland. 

[Detournement]

3 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Yes, 27 countries to deal with rather than one. If we'd voted for indy last time it would have been fairly straightforward, if Brexit happens it will be a similar problem to Ireland. 

Aye but if the one country is determined to f**k you over it might be better to have 27.