beefybake Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Savage Henry said: Genuine question: what right things? He's sat on his hands and allowed May to weasel out of making any hard decisions. Even now, the VoNC is actually going to give May breathing room, and make his stated goal of a new election less likely. The Tories have always imploded over Europe; it's an enormous schism within the party. I don't see any evidence that Labour is in a position to take advantage of it at all. 1. The Westminster Parliament isn't set up to be a round robin of concerned MP's working together for the good of the country. 2. It's set up as two sets of opposing benches. It's adversarial round down to the core. And the pursuit is power. The power to implement what is right according to their own policies. 3. When the sitting government is steadily disintegrating, imploding.... the Opposition needs to help that along.. . Not enable a sitting government to either denounce the opposition proposals, or adopt them as its own, and stay in power. Right now, the government is dead in the water. It has been for a while. That's why, for example, rather than assimilating any of the lessons about Carillion, they dramatically increased the rate of outsourcing since last year. To leave behind a fait accompli for their successors. Anyone intelligent knows now that outsourcing, PFI, and relentless privatisations are a crock of sh*t. But the government can still outsource, and award contracts. Because they have the elected power to do so. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jan/15/surge-in-outsourcing-after-carillion-collapse-staggering-unions-say 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamieson87 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 1 minute ago, ICTJohnboy said: Looking more and more likely we will be going down that road - again. I'm uncomfortable with that as I'm not convinced it will solve anything. Supposing a large chunk of England votes to leave again in sufficient numbers to tip the UK over the 50% mark. Where would that leave us? I can't speak for the whole of England but I can say with some confidence that few, if any in the Burnley area have had a change of mind on this issue - I suspect it will be much the same in all the other areas that voted in substantial numbers to leave. I do wonder what turnout would be in such a situation. It could have a significant effect. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zidane's child Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said: Looking more and more likely we will be going down that road - again. I'm uncomfortable with that as I'm not convinced it will solve anything. Supposing a large chunk of England votes to leave again in sufficient numbers to tip the UK over the 50% mark. Where would that leave us? I can't speak for the whole of England but I can say with some confidence that few, if any in the Burnley area have had a change of mind on this issue - I suspect it will be much the same in all the other areas that voted in substantial numbers to leave. I think it would be a better run campaign this time if that's any consolation? I'm confident there would be a high enough swing to Remain now the majority of us are a bit more educated on this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, jamieson87 said: She'll have to pivot somewhere, even if it is the customs union in all but name, however, that would make Brexiteers on her side have serious thoughts. Her plan B will either need to be softer brexit, or no deal. I can't see where else the wiggle room is. She has ruled out softening any of her red lines or considering a Customs Union. It's quite extraordinary, after such a huge defeat she is going to carry on crawling to the ERG and DUP and begging the EU to drop the backstop. The only thing the ERG want is a hard brexit. She has made no concessions whatsoever. Now it's a full on personal assault on Corbyn. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 1 minute ago, zidane's child said: I think it would be a better run campaign this time if that's any consolation? I'm confident there would be a high enough swing to Remain now the majority of us are a bit more educated on this. Assuming everyone who couldn't be arsed voting the last time and have spent the last 30 months wringing their hands, wailing and gnashing their teeth and vilifying leavers, turns out, remain would walk it, imo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, zidane's child said: I think it would be a better run campaign this time if that's any consolation? I'm confident there would be a high enough swing to Remain now the majority of us are a bit more educated on this. I'm not confident the people of Burnley are "a bit more educated" on this. In fact I'm not confident they are educated full stop. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Interesting.... Gauke or Clark probably. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 1 minute ago, ICTJohnboy said: I'm not confident the people of Burnley are "a bit more educated" on this. In fact I'm not confident they are educated full stop. What IQ decile of the Burnley population do you imagine you are in? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamieson87 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, Detournement said: Interesting.... Gauke or Clark probably. Good. Now is the time for someone to stand up and make a name for themselves. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 15 minutes ago, Rodhull said: Do they, even Labour's support of that seems mixed and/or subject to change on a whim? Labour are as divided as the Tories on several key issues of Brexit and don't appear anywhere near coherent enough to take over as a government. Labour outlined their support for a customs union in February last year. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/25/labour-backs-staying-in-eu-customs-union-keir-starmer-confirms I'm not surprised you are unaware of that due to the amount of disinformation flying about. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 If you take out YouTory polls Labour are doing fine and could expect another campaign boost.I read this as ‘if you take out the most accurate polling company Labour are doing fine’. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share Posted January 16, 2019 I'm not confident the people of Burnley are "a bit more educated" on this. In fact I'm not confident they are educated full stop.Do you live in Burnley? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share Posted January 16, 2019 Interesting.... Gauke or Clark probably.Wouldn't put it past being Gove tbh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamieson87 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 1 minute ago, John Lambies Doos said: 16 minutes ago, Detournement said: Interesting.... Gauke or Clark probably. Wouldn't put it past being Gove tbh He is due to give the last speech of the day I believe. The scenes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said: I read this as ‘if you take out the most accurate polling company Labour are doing fine’. Survatation are the most accurate polling company. Yougov published the completely fake 50/50 Indy poll, the 33-33 poll before the 2015 election and the poll which put May on 50% when she called the election. Their polls are designed to shape public debate in favour of the right. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btb Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 The PMs games continue................. Quote Theresa May’s plans for cross-party co-operation on Brexit were condemned after it emerged that she was not seeking to involve Jeremy Corbyn despite Tuesday’s historic defeat of her plan. Andrea Leadsom admitted Labour’s leader had not been invited to cross-party talks and indicated that Corbyn needed to say what he wanted from Brexit before being invited to speak to the prime minister. May offered cross-party talks after MPs rejected her deal by a majority of 230, with more than a third of Conservatives rebelling. Confirmation that May's plan remains to run down the clock. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodhull Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 12 minutes ago, Detournement said: Labour outlined their support for a customs union in February last year. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/25/labour-backs-staying-in-eu-customs-union-keir-starmer-confirms I'm not surprised you are unaware of that due to the amount of disinformation flying about. Looking into it a bit more it seems they want a customs union with the EU that the UK has some level of control over which is unprecedented so by no means guaranteed. Just seems like more of Corbin's belief that if he was at the negotiating table he could somehow agree a deal through sheer will alone despite offering things just about as opposed to the EU's red lines as May does. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Looking into it a bit more it seems they want a customs union with the EU that the UK has some level of control over which is unprecedented so by no means guaranteed. Just seems like more of Corbin's belief that if he was at the negotiating table he could somehow agree a deal through sheer will alone despite offering things just about as opposed to the EU's red lines as May does.Corbyn couldn't bargain on a stuffed donkey at a Benidorm market. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btb Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Well that's the cross party talks well & truly fucked.............. Quote Downing Street has flatly ruled out customs union membership, before the cross-party Brexit talks Theresa May promised on Tuesday night have even begun. The prime minister responded to Tuesday’s historic defeat in the meaningful vote by pledging to speak to “senior parliamentarians” to identify a deal that could secure a majority. But the Labour frontbench position is for a permanent customs union, as is that of Conservative backers of a Norway-style Brexit deal, making it unlikely talks with either group would get off the ground if May stands by that red line. Speaking to journalists after prime minister’s questions on Wednesday, a spokesman for May said: “The principles that govern us as we go into these talks is that we want to be able to do our own trade deals, and that is incompatible with a customs union.” May had said at PMQs that while she was seeking to learn “what could command the support of this house and deliver on the referendum”, any proposal must involve “opening up new opportunities to trade with the rest of the world”. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Brilliant speech by Blackford in the NC debate outlining how much Scotland has benefitted from being in the EU. Pleading with Corbyn to get off the fence and support SNP calls for a peoples vote - unfortunately his pleas looked to falling on deaf ears. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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