btb Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, welshbairn said: Arlene says NO MRS MAY! In the end I suppose it was the likeliest outcome even considering May's deal is likely the best the DUP are going to get from their POV. Shows the folly of dealing with a party who want to believe it's still the 17th century! Edited March 25, 2019 by btb 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 13 minutes ago, tirso said: I think May's deal is closest you're going to get. What it doesn't mean is staying in. You might think that but (A) you cannot claim that is what people who voted Leave voted for, and (B) the various opinion polls do not show much support for May’s deal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 27 minutes ago, tirso said: 55 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: That would be a fair position if there was one clear definition of Brexit, there wasn’t. I think May's deal is closest you're going to get. What it doesn't mean is staying in. Yet staying in is what a majority want. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tirso Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said: Yet staying in is what a majority want. Only vote we've had it on it says the contrary. We could have a general election, a pledge for another vote and vote again. But as things stand, the UK voted to leave. We don't do democracy by opinion polls or petitions. Might sound good when it's something you support but it's a poor precedent to set. Edited March 25, 2019 by tirso 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tirso Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 20 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: You might think that but (A) you cannot claim that is what people who voted Leave voted for, and (B) the various opinion polls do not show much support for May’s deal. well the only thing they didn't vote for by majority was to stay in, isn't it? So some form of Brexit is what they voted for. Surely you concede that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 minute ago, tirso said: Only vote we've had it on it says the contrary. We could have a general election, a pledge for another vote and vote again. But as things stand, the UK voted to leave. We don't do democracy by opinion polls or petitions. Might sound good when it's something you support but it's a poor precedent to set. What are you scared of? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, tirso said: well the only thing they didn't vote for by majority was to stay in, isn't it? So some form of Brexit is what they voted for. Surely you concede that? What would your attitude be if it could be proven that a large proportion of leave voters had changed their minds? I'm not saying it definitely can. Edited March 25, 2019 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tirso Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Just now, Tibbermoresaint said: What are you scared of? I'm scared of nothing. I want to stay in the EU. I'd be in favour of another vote potentially if there was an actual mandate for it via an election. Not facebook petitions. I do however believe the parties have a duty to come up with a Brexit that delivers on the referendum. To do otherwise is not democracy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty dingus Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 hour ago, tintax said: No shift in DUP position, that's May's deal not coming back this week or ever for that matter. She obviously never tried to woo them with cheddar cheese and pineapple on a stick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tirso Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 minute ago, welshbairn said: What would your attitude be if it could be proven that a large proportion of leave voters had changed their minds? If it was proven via an election, I would be very much in favour of changing things. Opinion polls. no. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, tirso said: I do however believe the parties have a duty to come up with a Brexit that delivers on the referendum. To do otherwise is not democracy. So let's have a confirmatory referendum. Would that not be democratic? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 I'm not sure if it could be proved in an election, millions of Remainers voted for parties promising Brexit last time around, very few people read the manifestos. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tirso Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Just now, Tibbermoresaint said: So let's have a confirmatory referendum. Would that not be democratic? What mandate is there for a confirmatory vote? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedToGoToCentralPark Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 So let's have a confirmatory referendum. Would that not be democratic?Let's go best of 3 and have a 3rd and final confirmatory of the confirmatory referendum but not for 2 years. Would that not be even more democratic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 minute ago, tirso said: What mandate is there for a confirmatory vote? Democracy. Why are you so opposed to it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Just now, UsedToGoToCentralPark said: 4 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said: So let's have a confirmatory referendum. Would that not be democratic? Let's go best of 3 and have a 3rd and final confirmatory of the confirmatory referendum but not for 2 years. Would that not be even more democratic. Sure. Do it every 5 years or so if you like. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tirso Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Just now, Tibbermoresaint said: Democracy. Why are you so opposed to it? I think it shows more Democratic nous to agree to let things happen collectively when you personally don't agree with it. You're just saying a word. Will we have a vote on the Death penalty as well? No mandate for it but hey Democracy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, tirso said: I think it shows more Democratic nous to agree to let things happen collectively when you personally don't agree with it. You're just saying a word. Will we have a vote on the Death penalty as well? No mandate for it but hey Democracy. There have been numerous parliamentary votes on the death penalty over the years. Absolutely no reason why there couldn't be a referendum on it. That's how democracy works. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tirso Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, welshbairn said: I'm not sure if it could be proved in an election, millions of Remainers voted for parties promising Brexit last time around, very few people read the manifestos. possibly and probably but that's still my standard, i'm afraid. I don't think there's a better way of doing things. Again, broken record but bad precedent. There is a way; have an election with it as a promise. Then it is justifiable. I wouldn't support Scottish independence by opinion poll either an I'm supporter. A mandate through an election, yes. Edited March 25, 2019 by tirso 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tirso Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Just now, Tibbermoresaint said: There have been numerous parliamentary votes on the death penalty over the years. Absolutely no reason why there couldn't be a referendum on it. That's how democracy works. No one's saying a vote couldn't be done. You could have a vote on the colour of the flag if you want. We're talking about should or should not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.