Granny Danger Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 Just now, dorlomin said: So you have none. Clown. Plenty but if there posted it it wouldn’t change your opinion. I’d be interested if you could post evidence to the contrary of what I said. But you can’t. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 We didn't really have a clear vision of what would happen in the event of a yes VOTE, the white paper was just a proposal from one section of YES, it's almost impossible to actually project what would have happened until both sides actually agreed a settlement, I was under no illusions that we would have suffered a level of capital flight, HQ's being moved and jobs being moved out of Scotland in the short term. I for one was quite happy to take the short term pain in the expectation that we would eventually be running our affairs better than Westminster had/could. The problem with Brexit and all the projections is the use of so called experts, the same group of so called experts that we were all calling liars,shysters, bampots etc. I've no doubt we'll be worse off in the short term if Brexit ever happens, how bad and for how long, I've no idea, I suspect that it won't be nearly as bad as predicted, that's based simply on the fact that I still don't trust the liars,shysters and bampots. We'll probably be better off in the short term if we can get a soft Brexit(as opposed to a No Deal or similar) that really doesn't address the immigration issue but f**k knows where that could take us long term when the far right decide they've been shafted. We could see Westminster being dominated by a party for the remnants of the 52%, would be great to see Labour and the Tories obliterated for a while but I'm not too sure it would be great when the youngsters of the future look back with the benefit of hindsight. If Leave get shafted and don't produce any sort of meaningful backlash then I've no doubt that independence as a goal will be over for the remainder of my lifetime. 650 pages not clear enough for you? As opposed to the zero pages before the Brexit referendum. That's disingenuous shit of the first degree. Everyone who voted Yes knew exactly what they were voting for. The same couldn't be said for those voting Leave. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 58 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Awfully sorry, I've corrected my post. Is it the piles again? Don't worry about this, Bairn... I think it's an age thing. There's plenty more on this thread that talk as much nonsense as you do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 (edited) It doesn't matter whether a majority of Labour voters voted Remain or Leave it's whether pissing off either side will cost you the seat. Labour aren't to blame for leaving but if they campaign for Remain now they will definitely lose a lot of votes. The flip side is they won't gain any. Remain supporting Tory voting arseholes will still be Tory voting arseholes. TVA taking offence Edited March 24, 2019 by Detournement -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Granny Danger said: I’d be interested if you could post evidence to the contrary of what I said. But you can’t. Quote Quote 1. Your post suggests that the majority of Labour voters in Leave supporting constituencies that elected a Labour MP voted Leave. There is absolutely no evidence to support this; quite the reverse. Leave voting constituencies voted leave. Lying to suggest that most Labour voters in them did not is not really very convincing when its clear you have no evidence. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted March 24, 2019 Author Share Posted March 24, 2019 Why are you always so aggressive Granny? Genuine question. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: 650 pages not clear enough for you? As opposed to the zero pages before the Brexit referendum. That's disingenuous shit of the first degree. Everyone who voted Yes knew exactly what they were voting for. The same couldn't be said for those voting Leave. Nah, the white paper was the SNP vision of the future, the YES movement that I witnessed was far more than the SNP. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 I have no problems with MPs serving their constituents first and foremost. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 10 minutes ago, Principal Flutie said: I have no problems with MPs serving their constituents first and foremost. Generally agree but I'd want my MP to do what he thought was in his constituents best interests even if it meant he would lose votes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 It doesn't matter whether a majority of Labour voters voted Remain or Leave it's whether pissing off either side will cost you the seat. Labour aren't to blame for leaving but if they campaign for Remain now they will definitely lose a lot of votes. The flip side is they won't gain any. Remain supporting Tory voting arseholes will still be Tory voting arseholes. TVA taking offence [emoji38]So it's all about preserving the party as opposed to doing the right thing. Fine, but I can think of at least one global institution, religious in nature, which is currently reaping a whirlwind for that. There is also a rather condescending assumption that the Labour vote is a lumpen mass incapable of appreciating and responding to evidence-based information, and God knows there is bit more of that than June 2016. Who knows, there may even have been some Leave voters marching through central London yesterday ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 6 minutes ago, dorlomin said: Leave voting constituencies voted leave. Lying to suggest that most Labour voters in them did not is not really very convincing when its clear you have no evidence. My claim is that the majority of Labour voters in Leave constituencies that elected Labour MPs voted Remain. You are disputing that. I am happy to provide evidence that supports my claim; such evidence being the result of post referendum polls (the only “evidence” possible.) What about a wager? If I can provide such evidence you pay me; if I can’t then I pay you. If you’re so sure then this shouldn’t be an issue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 4 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Generally agree but I'd want my MP to do what he thought was in his constituents best interests even if it meant he would lose votes. I actually do think that's what they should be doing, but it's just that I'm not going to have too much negative to say for MPs who do that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 22 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said: Why are you always so aggressive Granny? Genuine question. He's been like this ever since Caley Thistle knocked his crap football team out the Scottish Cup. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 23 minutes ago, Principal Flutie said: I have no problems with MPs serving their constituents first and foremost. Not always easy. A simplified example. 41% of voters vote A, 39% vote B, 20% vote C. Under FPTP MP representing A is elected. Who does he/she serve? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 Just now, Granny Danger said: Not always easy. A simplified example. 41% of voters vote A, 39% vote B, 20% vote C. Under FPTP MP representing A is elected. Who does he/she serve? Ultimately, the only two things they know for certain is that 1) they were elected and 2) they voted leave. Which is simplistic, but it's the two most solid facts that they have. Which is another poor showing of the system itself as well. I think you're probably right on the point you're making about the remain voters outnumbering the leave ones but, and this is even including the polls, it's still guesswork. Educated guesswork aye, but guesswork. We've seen polls be wrong before, and that's when I point back to the small paragraph above this one. It's an all round shitty situation for an MP to be in, and I can't really get high and mighty when there's no real easy answer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Principal Flutie said: Ultimately, the only two things they know for certain is that 1) they were elected and 2) they voted leave. Which is simplistic, but it's the two most solid facts that they have. Which is another poor showing of the system itself as well. I think you're probably right on the point you're making about the remain voters outnumbering the leave ones but, and this is even including the polls, it's still guesswork. Educated guesswork aye, but guesswork. We've seen polls be wrong before, and that's when I point back to the small paragraph above this one. It's an all round shitty situation for an MP to be in, and I can't really get high and mighty when there's no real easy answer. I accept the points you’re making but on the issue of Brexit I find it disturbing, but not surprising, the Tories are more loyal to their party than Labour. Tory MPs couldn’t give a shit what non-Tory voters in their constituencies think. Too many Labour MPs are trying to accommodate those who did not vote for them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Granny Danger said: I accept the points you’re making but on the issue of Brexit I find it disturbing, but not surprising, the Tories are more loyal to their party than Labour. Tory MPs couldn’t give a shit what non-Tory voters in their constituencies think. Too many Labour MPs are trying to accommodate those who did not vote for them. And it's going to work out very badly for them for quite a while. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 47 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said: He's been like this ever since Caley Thistle knocked his crap football team out the Scottish Cup. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 It is almost beyond belief that May is still trying to get support for her shitty, discredited deal. It is totally beyond believe that one of those she’s trying to get support from is Johnson. She’s obviously too thick to realise that for him this is not about Brexit. She is the consummate incompetent. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/24/brexiters-pile-on-pressure-as-mays-deal-drifts-away 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewDon Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 'If 'No Deal' wasn't there, what would you put?' 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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