Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

Just now, Granny Danger said:

There is nothing that I have said that is contradicted by your post.  If people don’t want to vote for a ‘socialist’ manifesto then they won’t.  But they should definitely have the opportunity to do so.

 

That's true, but there's no historical precedent for the UK choosing a socialist government, and more importantly there's absolutely no sign at all that voters in 2019 want a Corbyn-led government.

So where does that leave us ? Are Labour and their supporters happy to be permanent opposition as long as they can hold on to a 'Labour' ideology ? 

Corbyn's dithering has left Labour on the edge of being decimated in a snap GE, as Leavers head towards the Tories and Remainers drift to the LibDems because they see Labour as a wasted vote. 

And you can't say Labour don't deserve it. 

[Granny Danger]

6 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

That's true, but there's no historical precedent for the UK choosing a socialist government, and more importantly there's absolutely no sign at all that voters in 2019 want a Corbyn-led government.

So where does that leave us ? Are Labour and their supporters happy to be permanent opposition as long as they can hold on to a 'Labour' ideology ? 

Corbyn's dithering has left Labour on the edge of being decimated in a snap GE, as Leavers head towards the Tories and Remainers drift to the LibDems because they see Labour as a wasted vote. 

And you can't say Labour don't deserve it. 

The idea that a political party should change their position to win votes is exactly why people hold politicians in contempt.

 

[ICTJohnboy]

4 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

The idea that a political party should change their position to win votes is exactly why people hold politicians in contempt.

 

 

So did you cease to be a Labour voter when Blair changed the party's position back in '97?

[CaspianChris]

Seems this evil, heartless government are preparing to copy a Trump policy if they leave with no deal.  

Is there no limit to the depths of despair they wish to inflict on people.

 

[UsedToGoToCentralPark]

Corbyn should stand aside now and hand the reigns of his party to Keir Starmer. 
At least he (Starmer) seems to have some idea as to how he wants matters to progress from here. The ever dilatory Corbyn is still weighing it all up.
 

Sir Keir is a very capable politician, talks a lot of sense, articulates well and is clearly being held back by Corbyn. I've got a lot of time for him in the way he conducts himself.

[ICTJohnboy]

6 minutes ago, UsedToGoToCentralPark said:

3 hours ago, ICTJohnboy said:

Corbyn should stand aside now and hand the reigns of his party to Keir Starmer. 
At least he (Starmer) seems to have some idea as to how he wants matters to progress from here. The ever dilatory Corbyn is still weighing it all up.
 

Sir Keir is a very capable politician, talks a lot of sense, articulates well and is clearly being held back by Corbyn. I've got a lot of time for him in the way he conducts himself.

 

Indeed.

Starmer is someone the party could unite behind unlike the useless, dithering waste of space that is Corbyn.

I honestly believe we wouldn't be in the mess we are in now, had Starmer  been in charge over the past 12 months.

[Carl Cort's Hamstring]

I look forward to the Government dismissing yet more of its own analysis as baseless fearmongering:

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

4 hours ago, welshbairn said:

I hope Facebook rep and weak Tory collaborator Nick Clegg doesn't get forgotten when the Public Enquiry of this clusterfuck of epic proportions ever gets launched. Without his Fixed Terms Parliament Act, for which he sold the welfare state and student fees, there would have been a General Election after the Government lost its key legislation in December. No question. 

That's Sir Nick Clegg to you, prole.

[Granny Danger]

That slimey c**t Patel has had to drop the idea of stopping freedom of movement on 31 October as the government has been advised they had a 70% chance of losing a likely judicial review on the process.

 

[John Lambies Doos]

Sir Keir is a very capable politician, talks a lot of sense, articulates well and is clearly being held back by Corbyn. I've got a lot of time for him in the way he conducts himself.

I thought that about chukka once

[zidane's child]

1 hour ago, Carl Cort's Hamstring said:

I look forward to the Government dismissing yet more of its own analysis as baseless fearmongering:

 

“This was leaked by a former member of May’s cabinet”. That seems to be the bollocks you hear these days.

[welshbairn]

2 hours ago, UsedToGoToCentralPark said:

5 hours ago, ICTJohnboy said:

Corbyn should stand aside now and hand the reigns of his party to Keir Starmer. 
At least he (Starmer) seems to have some idea as to how he wants matters to progress from here. The ever dilatory Corbyn is still weighing it all up.
 

Sir Keir is a very capable politician, talks a lot of sense, articulates well and is clearly being held back by Corbyn. I've got a lot of time for him in the way he conducts himself.

That's the role he plays, but he achieves nothing, like the other so called legal geniuses like Benn the younger, Grieve, Letwin or Harman. He talks the man of reason spiel but does f**k all about it, backs down when the choices become real, within the party and without. The opposition are a load of cowards worried about their own political futures and legacies instead of their country.

Edited September 1, 2019 by welshbairn

[Fullerene]

3 hours ago, ICTJohnboy said:

 

Indeed.

Starmer is someone the party could unite behind unlike the useless, dithering waste of space that is Corbyn.

I honestly believe we wouldn't be in the mess we are in now, had Starmer  been in charge over the past 12 months.

If the Labour Party had given clear guidance to Labour voters to vote Remain then it is likely the referendum result would have been different. Otherwise why both campaigning. In that sense any leader but Corbyn would have been better. 

[Fullerene]

7 hours ago, welshbairn said:

I hope Facebook rep and weak Tory collaborator Nick Clegg doesn't get forgotten when the Public Enquiry of this clusterfuck of epic proportions ever gets launched. Without his Fixed Terms Parliament Act, for which he sold the welfare state and student fees, there would have been a General Election after the Government lost its key legislation in December. No question. 

Clegg was keen to have to have the FTPA because he didn't entirely trust the Tories and were worried they would call a snap election and throw him under the bus.  They were happy to agree knowing full well they could throw his party under the bus later.

[Paco]

Gavin Williamson says the Government will ‘look at’ laws passed by Parliament before deciding whether to actually enact them based on whether they fit in with their agenda.

 

Johnson will remove the whip and deselect anyone who votes against him in the coming days.

 

And as a reminder, the Prime Minister has suspended Parliament for five weeks so he can sort out a major national crisis entirely on his own.

 

This is all very normal.

 

[pub car king]

Most other countries parliament would be on fire by now and their politicians would be in hiding.

[Jacksgranda]

13 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

 

You two talk utter shite.  If people want to vote for a Tory Lite party they should do so.  That party should not be the Labour Party.  

The Labour Party should offer a genuine alternative.  If people don’t want to vote for that alternative fair enough, but far more people will once the clusterfuck of Brexit is resolved.

I don't often agree with G D - (who does) - but he's correct here. Labour should be a socialist party. If the bulk of the electorate are too selfish to vote for them, too bad.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

1 hour ago, Jacksgranda said:

I don't often agree with G D - (who does) - but he's correct here. Labour should be a socialist party. If the bulk of the electorate are too selfish to vote for them, too bad.

That's all well and good, but I suggest that you have a look at the link below and work out how often in the last 120 years a 'Socialist' administration has formed the government of the UK. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_governments

Blind principle is one thing, but the fact remains the UK as a whole is not, never has been and probably never will be a 'socialist' or even a 'left of centre' country. 

Labour since the beginning of their existence, have been a party of opposition, not of government.  At least Corbyn seems determined to continue that fine tradition. 

[Granny Danger]

There’s folk on here who seem unable to distinguish between leadership and policies.

Corbyn has driven left-of-centre policies in the Labour Party and has ended up as leader because there’s now a genuine support in the membership for such policies.

Quite a number of those who joined the party because of its change of direction have since left due to the terrible Brexit policy.  However membership is still far higher since Corbyn took over than ever before.

I am delighted that Labour are offering people a real alternative and I don’t see a return to the Blair days.  Hopefully the PLP will gradually change to reflect the Labour Party as it now is.

If people genuinely want a centrist party they can vote Lib Dem, but should remember what happened the last time they had a sniff of power.

[Jacksgranda]

The choice should be there. Replying to B M.

Edited September 2, 2019 by Jacksgranda