MazzyStar Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 5 hours ago, Benjamin_Nevis said: At least we know what happened to Detournement after his well-earned binning. There are much worse posters on here than Detournement. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 The prime minister there saying the best place for business is to be in the Customs Union and Single Market. He couldn't be much more explicit that Brexit is awful. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt n Vinegar Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 8 minutes ago, 101 said: The prime minister there saying the best place for business is to be in the Customs Union and Single Market. He couldn't be much more explicit that Brexit is awful. Sunak is doomed. Larry the cat has turned on him. I understand that Larry has said "It would take a politician of exceptional ability to convey this message without reminding everyone that the rest of the UK would also be better off in the EU single market. Sunak is not an exceptional politician." The Secretary of State for Scotland will be delighted. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Jean King Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said: Sunak is doomed. Larry the cat has turned on him. I understand that Larry has said "It would take a politician of exceptional ability to convey this message without reminding everyone that the rest of the UK would also be better off in the EU single market. Sunak is not an exceptional politician." The Secretary of State for Scotland will be delighted. And his likely replacement is now more anti EU than the leader of a Tory govt which is quite ridiculous. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 36 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said: Larry the cat has turned on him The prime minister's cat turning on the PM would have been an unbelievable storyline in The Thick of It sadly now it's all too real 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btb Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 Stewart Lee nails it in his Grauniad column today. Brexit has reversed the brains of Sunak and Starmer | Stewart Lee | The Guardian 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MazzyStar Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, btb said: Stewart Lee nails it in his Grauniad column today. Brexit has reversed the brains of Sunak and Starmer | Stewart Lee | The Guardian Stewart Lee’s opinion on brexit means absolutely nothing after he wrote this horseshit article https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/31/praise-be-to-mick-lynch-the-brexit-arse-made-good The gall of him to talk about ‘cognitive dissonance’ whilst claiming the EU is somehow not the polar opposite of leftism. Mick Lynch is absolutely right to oppose the EU. Edited March 5, 2023 by MazzyStar 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btb Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 10 minutes ago, MazzyStar said: Stewart Lee’s opinion on brexit means absolutely nothing after he wrote this horseshit article https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/31/praise-be-to-mick-lynch-the-brexit-arse-made-good The absolute gall of this c**t to talk about ‘cognitive dissonance’ whilst claiming the EU is somehow not the polar opposite of leftism. Mick Lynch is absolutely right to oppose the EU. I am aware of the left-wing arguments used in favour of Brexit, that it was centre-right in essence and any concessions to workers right were resisted and minimized by institutional interests but the idea that social justice issues would be improved by a post-Brexit Troika of Gove, Farage & Johnson was a fantasy - this has been borne out by by the last six years. Mick Lynch was within his rights to oppose the EU but he was absolutely wrong as both SL articles point out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkieRR Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 22 minutes ago, MazzyStar said: Mick Lynch is absolutely within his rights to oppose the EU. FTFY I do remember Guardian bore-in-chief Polly Toynbee describing Sirkeir Starmer as 'the man who will keep the UK in the EU.' She was talking dully-written bilge as usual so didn't explain how someone in opposition, and not even the leader of the opposition at the time, would or could do this. Next election is a real difficult choice. I'm not voting for Brexiteer Labour but the SNP, whoever wins their current reality show, are not an appealing alternative. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkieRR Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 2 minutes ago, btb said: Mick Lynch was within his rights to oppose the EU Snap, old boy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MazzyStar Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 (edited) 41 minutes ago, btb said: I am aware of the left-wing arguments used in favour of Brexit, that it was centre-right in essence and any concessions to workers right were resisted and minimized by institutional interests but the idea that social justice issues would be improved by a post-Brexit Troika of Gove, Farage & Johnson was a fantasy - this has been borne out by by the last six years. Mick Lynch was within his rights to oppose the EU but he was absolutely wrong as both SL articles point out. The point is the EU is not much further to the left that any of Gove, Johnson and Sunak. Obviously, if the aforementioned “post brexit troika” weren’t so stupid they’d realise remaining in the EU aligns with their interests as a social class and many of the policies of the EU also align with their views. Instead they make it about issues such as sovereignty and immigration. I don’t really care about the whole sovereignty debate and have made it clear in other posts what my issues with the EU in its current form are. I’m not totally against something like the EU but I am totally opposed to it as it currently exists and the clique of French and German multinational companies with large influence on the organisation and technocrats like Macron have dug their heels in with regards to meaningful reform of the EU and if anything are moving further to the right. 39 minutes ago, KirkieRR said: Next election is a real difficult choice. I'm not voting for Brexiteer Labour but the SNP, whoever wins their current reality show, are not an appealing alternative. I’m not voting for Labour either and you are right about the SNP, but I’m afraid this is what European politics is becoming. Militarism and Neoliberalism are the flavour of the month and every major political party have made these their main focuses. There’s no clearer example than the formerly anti war German Green Party becoming one of the most pro NATO parties, with the likes of Ross Greer attempting to emulate this with Scottish Greens. Edited March 5, 2023 by MazzyStar 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkieRR Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 Just now, MazzyStar said: The point is the EU is not much further to the left that any of Gove, Johnson and Sunak. The EU is the sum of whoever has been elected to govern the constituent states, and the composition of the EU Parliament. It is neither a left or a right thing per se. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MazzyStar Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 2 minutes ago, KirkieRR said: The EU is the sum of whoever has been elected to govern the constituent states, and the composition of the EU Parliament. It is neither a left or a right thing per se. And the sum of who’s been elected are right wing parties such as the CDU and Renaissance (Macrons party). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btb Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 5 minutes ago, MazzyStar said: The point is the EU is not much further to the left that any of Gove, Johnson and Sunak. Obviously, if the aforementioned “post brexit troika” weren’t so stupid they’d realise remaining in the EU aligns with their interests as a social class and many of the policies of the EU also align with their views. Instead they make it about issues such as sovereignty and immigration. I don’t really care about the whole sovereignty debate and have made it clear in other posts what my issues with the EU in its current form are. I’m not totally against something like the EU but I am totally opposed to it as it currently exists and the clique of French and German multinational companies with large influence on the organisation and technocrats like Macron have dug their heels in with regards to meaningful reform of the EU and if anything are moving further to the right. 1 hour ago, MazzyStar said: Stewart Lee’s opinion on brexit means absolutely nothing after he wrote this horseshit article https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/31/praise-be-to-mick-lynch-the-brexit-arse-made-good The absolute gall of this c**t to talk about ‘cognitive dissonance’ whilst claiming the EU is somehow not the polar opposite of leftism. Mick Lynch is absolutely right to oppose the EU. How far to the left the current Tory administration is compared to the EU is a moot point but Lee's opposition to Brexit is consistent in both articles, and nowhere in the first does Lee say that Lynch had no right to voice his Lexit position in 2016 so your point is irrelevant and your anger unjustified. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MazzyStar Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 8 minutes ago, btb said: How far to the left the current Tory administration is compared to the EU is a moot point but Lee's opposition to Brexit is consistent in both articles, and nowhere in the first does Lee say that Lynch had no right to voice his Lexit position in 2016 so your point is irrelevant and your anger unjustified. What anger? I just said Stewart Lee was talking shite. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btb Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, MazzyStar said: What anger? I just said Stewart Lee was talking shite. You called him cunt. Oh and the lack of self awareness in that post! Edited March 5, 2023 by btb 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MazzyStar Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 4 minutes ago, btb said: You called him cunt. Fair enough. I don’t actually have any strong feelings about the guy tbh. I just think he’s another centrist who’s liberal guilt manifests in backing the EU to the hilt. He’ll happily berate the tories but will conveniently not mention the EU doing exactly the same thing as the tories. It’s probably because he doesn’t have a problem with the root problem-capitalism. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 58 minutes ago, KirkieRR said: The EU is the sum of whoever has been elected to govern the constituent states, and the composition of the EU Parliament. It is neither a left or a right thing per se. Apart from the Commission who are the origin of all EU legislation, who are not elected and whose mandate is simply to be pro EU. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 24 minutes ago, coprolite said: Apart from the Commission who are the origin of all EU legislation, who are not elected and whose mandate is simply to be pro EU. They're all nominated by elected national governments and subject to a confirmatory vote by the European Parliament. They can also be sacked by the Parliament. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 1 hour ago, MazzyStar said: I’m not voting for Labour either and you are right about the SNP, but I’m afraid this is what European politics is becoming. Militarism and Neoliberalism are the flavour of the month and every major political party have made these their main focuses. There’s no clearer example than the formerly anti war German Green Party becoming one of the most pro NATO parties, with the likes of Ross Greer attempting to emulate this with Scottish Greens. If NATO is seen as vehicle for advancing US military might then I can see why people would oppose it. However it is currently seen as a means to thwart Russian military might so I can see why people would support it. European countries are keen to belong to NATO as the best way to avoid invasion by Russia. NATO isn't great but the alternative is worse. Similarly there is a lot that is wrong about the EU yet several small countries are keen to belong while others are keen to join. You can't fix it from the outside. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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