Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[TheProgressiveLiberal]

5 minutes ago, Antlion said:

So the UK should join the USA? After all, we have a "special relationship", a shared history, and you seem to think that it's fine for "free trade" to involve incorporating political union...

That doesn't sound like an idea many people on either side would like. I'm not sure what the purpose would be anyways. 

I'd most likely support a free trade agreement, and I'm fine with British people who want to live in the US moving here. Not sure what that has to do with a political union.

[Billy Jean King]

1 hour ago, DA Baracus said:

Why are they queuing outside when they all open at 08.00 for food?

You get my drift - they start milling around the bar from about 10.55 as the barmen are sticklers for the 11.00am rule and by 10.57 there is a queue forming and before you ask yes it was breakfast I was having.

[Antlion]

1 hour ago, TheProgressiveLiberal said:

That doesn't sound like an idea many people on either side would like. I'm not sure what the purpose would be anyways. 

I'd most likely support a free trade agreement, and I'm fine with British people who want to live in the US moving here. Not sure what that has to do with a political union.

I may be wrong, but I thought you supported full political union between "similar" countries as a means to free trade.

[TheProgressiveLiberal]

13 hours ago, Antlion said:

I may be wrong, but I thought you supported full political union between "similar" countries as a means to free trade.

I'm a conservative. As a general rule I'm against breaking up existing countries unless there is some obvious and large cultural difference. I advocate more local rule in situations where there are just regional political differences. That's different from throwing new countries together, though I assume it makes sense in some instances like Crimea and Russia.

I'm not sure what free trade has to do with political union. They are two different things. I'm skeptical of free trade for the US specifically. It may work better for other countries. I think countries should seek what's best for the general prosperity of their citizens. That's not going to be the same for every country. We are a massive and wealthy country with a productive citizenry. I suspect that free trade is worst in it's effects on countries with those characteristics. I could be wrong. I'm not an economist. I just know that the predicted results suggested by the free trade economist don't seem to come true when these free trade agreements are implemented, even when they are with countries like South Korea. 

[Antlion]

6 hours ago, TheProgressiveLiberal said:

I'm a conservative. As a general rule I'm against breaking up existing countries unless there is some obvious and large cultural difference. I advocate more local rule in situations where there are just regional political differences. That's different from throwing new countries together, though I assume it makes sense in some instances like Crimea and Russia.

I'm not sure what free trade has to do with political union. They are two different things. I'm skeptical of free trade for the US specifically. It may work better for other countries. I think countries should seek what's best for the general prosperity of their citizens. That's not going to be the same for every country. We are a massive and wealthy country with a productive citizenry. I suspect that free trade is worst in it's effects on countries with those characteristics. I could be wrong. I'm not an economist. I just know that the predicted results suggested by the free trade economist don't seem to come true when these free trade agreements are implemented, even when they are with countries like South Korea. 

Unfortunately, both the unions you support and the union you oppose insist on differing levels of political integration as a prerequisite of free trade. Either this is wrong or it isn't. One of the reasons seems to be that political union gradually erodes "obvious and large cultural differences". That certainly seems to be what the British union aimed at, and you seem to think it's worked so marvellously that it must continue. Surely, therefore, you support conserving our European Union and pursuing more integration (given the member states already have sufficient local rule). Incidentally, if a country that has been in the EU since its inception is "massive and wealthy", then your argument that it suffers the worst effects of EU free trade is pretty illogical.

[Scary Bear]

They didn't want no stinking tyre factory. They want borders, dammit - except on their doorstep.
Btw, "my dream is to bring tyre production to Carlisle and Cumbria"? Some might call that a pretty corny dream, uh ... sergeant.

That is the shittest dream ever from the aptly named Dick.

Martin Luther is not impressed with that one.

[TheProgressiveLiberal]

1 hour ago, Antlion said:

Unfortunately, both the unions you support and the union you oppose insist on differing levels of political integration as a prerequisite of free trade. Either this is wrong or it isn't. One of the reasons seems to be that political union gradually erodes "obvious and large cultural differences". That certainly seems to be what the British union aimed at, and you seem to think it's worked so marvellously that it must continue. Surely, therefore, you support conserving our European Union and pursuing more integration (given the member states already have sufficient local rule). Incidentally, if a country that has been in the EU since its inception is "massive and wealthy", then your argument that it suffers the worst effects of EU free trade is pretty illogical.

I can only speak in strong specifics about the United States. Only generalities elsewhere. I'm not sure I have an opinion or knowledge about the aims of the British union. In general I support a strong nation state because it provides the best structure for average people to exercise self government, and for the highest % of people to live under something close to what they voted for, in both domestic and foreign affairs. It also provides a forum for politics based on competing ideas rather than competing ethnic groups. I guess you are arguing that the British nations used to be a different as the European nations are now, but political union eroded those differences? So I should support European integration as a project towards building a viable European nation? I don't have enough knowledge of British history to offer a well informed opinion. However, as a conservative I do believe in dealing with the world as it is, not attempting utopian projects to mold it into something new. 

[Fullerene]

30 minutes ago, TheProgressiveLiberal said:

I can only speak in strong specifics about the United States. Only generalities elsewhere. I'm not sure I have an opinion or knowledge about the aims of the British union. In general I support a strong nation state because it provides the best structure for average people to exercise self government, and for the highest % of people to live under something close to what they voted for, in both domestic and foreign affairs. It also provides a forum for politics based on competing ideas rather than competing ethnic groups. I guess you are arguing that the British nations used to be a different as the European nations are now, but political union eroded those differences? So I should support European integration as a project towards building a viable European nation? I don't have enough knowledge of British history to offer a well informed opinion. However, as a conservative I do believe in dealing with the world as it is, not attempting utopian projects to mold it into something new. 

Brexit is Utopianism which is not an exclusively left wing thing.

We will have our cake and eat it and it will all be wonderful.  Sounds like Utopianism to me.

Edited November 8, 2017 by Fullerene

[Antlion]

9 hours ago, TheProgressiveLiberal said:

I can only speak in strong specifics about the United States. Only generalities elsewhere. I'm not sure I have an opinion or knowledge about the aims of the British union. In general I support a strong nation state because it provides the best structure for average people to exercise self government, and for the highest % of people to live under something close to what they voted for, in both domestic and foreign affairs. It also provides a forum for politics based on competing ideas rather than competing ethnic groups. I guess you are arguing that the British nations used to be a different as the European nations are now, but political union eroded those differences? So I should support European integration as a project towards building a viable European nation? I don't have enough knowledge of British history to offer a well informed opinion. However, as a conservative I do believe in dealing with the world as it is, not attempting utopian projects to mold it into something new. 

The aims of the British Union since it was first conceived (before it came to pass) were full political and economic union: the pouring of the smaller vessel into the larger. The dream was the creation of a British empire, which was achieved, and has since fallen apart. It was an attempt to create a strong nation state by destroying existing nation states, particularly those that England wanted to rule.

As a conservative who wants to preserve things as they are, surely you should be all about keeping Europe united. Brexit is, if anything, an attempt to bring to life a Faragian utopia based on ethnicity, borders, and turning away from European markets to trade with an ill-defined "rest of the world". 

[Baxter Parp]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/nov/09/brexit-will-hit-northern-england-economy-hardest-ippr-north-thinktank

Brexit will hit north of England the hardest, says thinktank

Careful what you wish for, says I.

[John Lambies Doos]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/nov/09/brexit-will-hit-northern-england-economy-hardest-ippr-north-thinktank
Brexit will hit north of England the hardest, says thinktank
Careful what you wish for, says I.

Oh dear

[philyerboots]

Now you lot have a  nice day now .

Domestic Workers’ Salaries’ Surge As Migrant Labour Declines in Brexit Britain

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/11/09/brexit-boon-starting-salaries-rise-sharply-supply-cheap-migrant-workers-falls/

 

[mjw]

Breitbart ffs.
They are currently defending a guy in America who is accused of tampering with a 14 yr old.
No surprise then it's on her heehaws reading list.

[Jeff Venom]

Breitbart [emoji23]
Sit doon

[Granny Danger]

2 hours ago, mjw said:

Breitbart ffs.
They are currently defending a guy in America who is accused of tampering with a 14 yr old.
No surprise then it's on her heehaws reading list.

Any comments that Pa Broon might make in the Sunday Post have more authority than Breitbart.

 

[MarkoRaj]

Breitbart ffs.
They are currently defending a guy in America who is accused of tampering with a 14 yr old.
No surprise then it's on her heehaws reading list.

It's quoted a report from the Recruitment and Employment Confederation.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

 It's quoted a report from the Recruitment and Employment Confederation. 

 

 Stagnating real wages means moving job the best way to secure a pay rise – REChttps://www.rec.uk.com/news-and-policy/press-releases/stagnating-real-wages-means-moving-job-the-best-way-to-secure-a-pay-rise-rec

 

To quote a press release which starts by stating that

 

“Real wages continued to fall, for the sixth consecutive month, according to today’s labour market statistics published by the Office for National Statistics (ONS).”

 

In an article entitled “Domestic Workers’ Salaries’ Surge As Migrant Labour Declines in Brexit Britain”

 

Is practically beyond parody

 

They’re presumably referring to the bit later where Kevin Green, head of the REC, says

 

“Recruiters tell us that due to the diminishing pool of available candidates, employers are willing to offer higher salaries or hourly pay rates when advertising for new hires, meaning the best way to secure an above inflation pay rise might well be to move jobs.”

 

So firstly we’re only talking about new hires, secondly as a professional body for recruitment professionals they’re hardly likely to encourage people to stick in their current job and thirdly Mr Green has taken his own advice and since resigned from the REC

 

 

 

 

[Granny Danger]

At least we now have a precise time (day, hour and minute) when Brexit will come into force.  Thank Christ for that, many a night I've found it difficult falling asleep because I was unaware of exactly when we were jumping off the clif.

Of course by then it will be moot.

[mjw]

It's quoted a report from the Recruitment and Employment Confederation.

Its still breibart though.
The organisation of Bannon,Milo and all the rest of the master race.

[Granny Danger]

21 hours ago, mjw said:

Its still breibart though.
The organisation of Bannon,Milo and all the rest of the master race.

If Bannon and Milo are representative of a ‘master race’ I’m glad I’m not not part of it.