Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[RedRob72]

 
I holidayed in the USA for more than twenty years, and one of the reasons we stopped going was the total mess of their system. Half the time you were on the verge of missing any connecting flight because of the horrendous queues and the complete dicks running the customs and the TSA. The system does not work well it is a shambles
 

I wouldn’t doubt your own personal experience Bob, but it doesn’t seem to deter some 80 Million other visitors to the USA every year.

[RedRob72]

More questions at the border though, and obviously a longer queue. The system is changing for everyone outside the EU.
https://etias.com/

Interesting stuff, including the application process of the EITAS Visa Waiver for selected countries. Perhaps the need for tighter security measures at the EU border area is long overdue and the timing of Brexit purely coincidental.

[welshbairn]

2 minutes ago, RedRob72 said:

 

Interesting stuff, including the application process of the EITAS Visa Waiver for selected countries. Perhaps the need for tighter security measures at the EU border area is long overdue and the timing of Brexit purely coincidental.

 

I'm sure it is, but there will be longer queues for you at Alacante I'm afraid.

[HTG]

2 minutes ago, RedRob72 said:

 

Interesting stuff, including the application process of the EITAS Visa Waiver for selected countries. Perhaps the need for tighter security measures at the EU border area is long overdue and the timing of Brexit purely coincidental.

 

Will this need for tighter security at the EU border area also include the island of Ireland?  Or are some pigs more equal than others when it's politically expedient? 

[RedRob72]

Will this need for tighter security at the EU border area also include the island of Ireland?  Or are some pigs more equal than others when it's politically expedient? 

Not sure it’s Political expediency, but it’s certainly an exception, we’ve had an open border with our neighbours in the Republic for over 90 years. It really shouldn’t be too much of an adjustment to manage our only land border with the EU in cooperation with the Irish Government.

[welshbairn]

30 minutes ago, bob the tank said:

 

I holidayed in the USA for more than twenty years, and one of the reasons we stopped going was the total mess of their system. Half the time you were on the verge of missing any connecting flight because of the horrendous queues and the complete dicks running the customs and the TSA. The system does not work well it is a shambles

 

Took me 2 hours just to get out of Dulles on entry. Few years ago mind. Rudest aparatchiks I've encountered globally.

[HTG]

43 minutes ago, RedRob72 said:

 

Not sure it’s Political expediency, but it’s certainly an exception, we’ve had an open border with our neighbours in the Republic for over 90 years. It really shouldn’t be too much of an adjustment to manage our only land border with the EU in cooperation with the Irish Government.

 

And can we do that for the others too?  If you're an EU citizen or have secured passage into the EU and have freedom of movement, why would you not trot into the Republic and stroll into the UK from there? I don't think you can start advancing arguments about tightening borders on the fringes of the EU and then immediately throw in an exception to the rule to suit a line of thinking. 

[WILLIEA]

3 hours ago, RedRob72 said:

I voted to remain Willie, but I think you’re over playing it a wee bit.
The ones screaming that we’ll now be waiting hours and hours on end queuing at Faro Airport are just as bad as the Blue Passport Brigade.

Time will tell I suppose!

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

On every single issue the EU has to demonstrate to the remaining members that leaving is a huge negative, so don't be surprised if the wee niggly shite that 'shouldn't be a problem' but actually affects average Joe are the issues that they come down hardest on. Freedom of movement (ha!) is highly likely to be one that is curtailed. I wouldn't be surprised if the airports get a 'former EU member' queue with no fucker manning it.

Of course, this was all explained in advance of the referendum but folk voted for it anyway.

[John Lambies Doos]

This is why there will have to be some form of border on island of Ireland. It's a shame but the right wing brigade will have their blue passports. Every cloud.....

[RedRob72]

And can we do that for the others too?  If you're an EU citizen or have secured passage into the EU and have freedom of movement, why would you not trot into the Republic and stroll into the UK from there? I don't think you can start advancing arguments about tightening borders on the fringes of the EU and then immediately throw in an exception to the rule to suit a line of thinking. 

The EU have introduced tighter security measures, chiefly in response to an increase in the number of terrorist attacks, mostly committed by EU nationals?
Presumably the Irish Border Agency will form part of this combined effort. Why this would lead to an increase in people ‘trotting’ over the border into Northern Ireland, I’m not sure?
Unless the suggestion is that there are hordes of dangerous renegades just waiting to exploit an open border already resident in Ireland or that the Irish government would enable free passage through the Republic so long as the intended destination was stated as the UK.
If it’s simply a question of immigration control, most of those seeking UK residency from abroad, are from outside the EU anyway, an open or hard border with the Republic Of Ireland isn’t going to change that.
It isn’t beyond the realms of possibility to put in place the practical measures to manage our single land border with the EU and with the minimal amount of disruption and inconvenience.

[NotThePars]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15287634.Jeremy_Corbyn__I_will_fight_tirelessly_against_independence_vote/
 
Funnily enough, he has historically always wanted NI to leave the UK. This is a prime example of his selective approach to issues - Ireland he cares about, for whatever reason, Scotland, he doesn’t. He’s content to be led on the issue of Scotland’s future (although broadly he appears to be against independence, and the right to decide again on it, because his Socialist vision only includes Great Britain). 

I think Northern Ireland being a settler state founded and maintained by a colonialist British state, with a large degree of Scottish involvement, is probably why Corbyn and a lot of other UK leftists want a united Ireland but are significantly cooler on an independent Scotland. It's not my view but I understand the point.

[welshbairn]

7 minutes ago, RedRob72 said:

 

The EU have introduced tighter security measures, chiefly in response to an increase in the number of terrorist attacks, mostly committed by EU nationals?
Presumably the Irish Border Agency will form part of this combined effort. Why this would lead to an increase in people ‘trotting’ over the border into Northern Ireland, I’m not sure?
Unless the suggestion is that there are hordes of dangerous renegades just waiting to exploit an open border already resident in Ireland or that the Irish government would enable free passage through the Republic so long as the intended destination was stated as the UK.
If it’s simply a question of immigration control, most of those seeking UK residency from abroad, are from outside the EU anyway, an open or hard border with the Republic Of Ireland isn’t going to change that.
It isn’t beyond the realms of possibility to put in place the practical measures to manage our single land border with the EU and with the minimal amount of disruption and inconvenience.

 

If you stop free movement of goods and people between Britain and EU countries but keep both between the North and South of Ireland, how do you control both between Eire and Britain?

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

1 minute ago, welshbairn said:

If you stop free movement of goods and people between Britain and EU countries but keep both between the North and South of Ireland, how do you control both between Eire and Britain?

Theresa Villiers said it would be fine, that's how.

[John Lambies Doos]

If you stop free movement of goods and people between Britain and EU countries but keep both between the North and South of Ireland, how do you control both between Eire and Britain?

U don't. Hence my point above.....

[RedRob72]

If you stop free movement of goods and people between Britain and EU countries but keep both between the North and South of Ireland, how do you control both between Eire and Britain?

 

There are already a number of mandatory checks and balances in place with the transfer of goods over the border, Livestock and Produce for example (which also accounts for the largest share of trade incidentally).

Would it be too much of a complication to routinely monitor and sample other imports/exports, Machinery, Manufactured goods etc, and to check the necessary documentation?

There may be multiple crossing points along the border, but vehicle registration recognition for example could be used on regular commuter and transport routes, with the British Government offering finance and manpower to assist our Border Control counterparts in the Republic. Yes it’s an additional cost but did anyone think this was going to be a free ride!?

If we are suggesting that a travelling mass of economic migrants are suddenly going to divert from mainland Europe to Dublin or Cork simply to gain entry into the UK, I just don’t think it’s going to happen. Surely it would be noticeable if that was the case and we could address the issue at source. Especially if we were talking about significant numbers trying to cross over some remote Fermanagh farmland!?

You never know, we might even begin to welcome their attempts once the labour force pool starts to dry up and people stop coming here to do the jobs that we don’t want to.

 

 

[welshbairn]

10 minutes ago, RedRob72 said:

 

There are already a number of mandatory checks and balances in place with the transfer of goods over the border, Livestock and Produce for example (which also accounts for the largest share of trade incidentally).

Would it be too much of a complication to routinely monitor and sample other imports/exports, Machinery, Manufactured goods etc, and to check the necessary documentation?

 

 

Far easier to check the routes between NI and the mainland. Couple of ferry ports and airports. I gather the DUP aren't keen though.

[Glenconner]

3 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Far easier to check the routes between NI and the mainland. Couple of ferry ports and airports. I gather the DUP aren't keen though.

Who needs ID going through those ports. Just wear a Rangers scarf and your sorted.

[RedRob72]

Far easier to check the routes between NI and the mainland. Couple of ferry ports and airports. I gather the DUP aren't keen though.

Feasible perhaps, but you can see how the DUP would resist any attempt to place a barrier or border that 1) Separates Northern Ireland from the rest of the UK and 2) Creates an artificial geographical unification of the island of Ireland.
Hmm, I think that might cause more problems than trying to maintain current arrangements.

[welshbairn]

Powerful stuff from Lord Adonis.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/30/who-is-lord-adonis-read-his-resignation-letter-in-full-7191936/