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Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

John Lambies Doos

By John Lambies Doos
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welshbairn

welshbairn

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It would be interesting to get a straight answer from the likes of Rees Mogg about which rules/laws he objects to. I'd bet they're mainly to do with the Working Time Directive and the other ream of workers' protections, and regulations controlling the financial sector. Environmental stuff too.

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Inanimate Carbon Rod
Inanimate Carbon Rod

Ive worked in joint agency with borders agency, they are easily one of the slowest, most bureaucratic organisations around, the idea that they have the competency to effectively manage imports at port

AsimButtHitsASix
AsimButtHitsASix

Getting bored of ye dodging this. Just gonna rip it apart. "Unrestricted immigration" Nonsense. We have complete control of our borders for both EU and non EU citizens entering the country. Just

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Bairnardo

Bairnardo

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It would be interesting to get a straight answer from the likes of Rees Mogg about which rules/laws he objects to. I'd bet they're mainly to do with the Working Time Directive and the other ream of workers' protections, and regulations controlling the financial sector. Environmental stuff too.
Aye but OVERTIME BOOM FOR HARD WORKING BRITS!!!!!!
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welshbairn

welshbairn

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2 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:
3 minutes ago, welshbairn said:
It would be interesting to get a straight answer from the likes of Rees Mogg about which rules/laws he objects to. I'd bet they're mainly to do with the Working Time Directive and the other ream of workers' protections, and regulations controlling the financial sector. Environmental stuff too.

Aye but OVERTIME BOOM FOR HARD WORKING BRITS!!!!!!

Do you pay VAT on your clothes BTW?

Sorry, couldn't resist. :shutup

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welshbairn

welshbairn

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Brexiteer's "expert" trade advisor. 

Quote

His main preoccupation is removing regulations that he says are used as barriers to trade, such as some of the EU rules on food safety, chemicals and pharmaceuticals licensing, and caps on financial services.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/24/pro-brexit-adviser-admits-uk-would-be-better-off-staying-in-eu

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pandarilla

pandarilla

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Pandarilla said that people wanted to get away from EU law. I asked for an example.
Why are we arguing definitions? If there's so much bad EU law out there, why hasn't someone posted an example?
I think for so many people it's not about specifics, it's about the process.

The regulations against nationalisation is something I have a problem with but I don't think this was a big factor at all.

I think many people felt that the EU was so vast, so powerful, and so out of their control that it had to be stopped.

The campaign in general was atrocious, but folk felt a disconnect. I think emotions dictated the vote. Heart over head maybe, but the decision has been made.
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welshbairn

welshbairn

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

I think for so many people it's not about specifics, it's about the process.

The regulations against nationalisation is something I have a problem with but I don't think this was a big factor at all.

I think many people felt that the EU was so vast, so powerful, and so out of their control that it had to be stopped.

The campaign in general was atrocious, but folk felt a disconnect. I think emotions dictated the vote. Heart over head maybe, but the decision has been made.

What I don't understand is why out of all the votes we make, this one we're not allowed a chance to change our minds when we see how things turn out.

Edited by welshbairn
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pandarilla

pandarilla

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What I don't understand is why out of all the votes we make, this one we're not allowed a chance to change our minds when we see how things turn out.
General elections are regular things, that's the game.

A referendum is seen as a one off, used in special circumstances.

There was quite clearly a message sent out from huge swathes of Britain to the 'political establishment'. If that is somehow just ignored then I really would fear for the future of our democracy (which i know sounds dramatic but you have to look at this from the other side).

If Scotland had voted yes to independence but then somehow a second referendum kept us in because of difficult negotiations there would be civil disobedience, and rightly so.

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welshbairn

welshbairn

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2 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

I don't know what the next step is after the a hypothetical Remain win. What's the next step for the people leading the campaign?

Hung from lamp posts probably. That's why it won't happen, not until after we leave and beg to get back in probably. That's if it still exists after the May EU elections. I don't see any path to an optimistic immediate future tbh. May's deal is just kicking decisions down the road, still leaves a hard brexit or returning to the EU on the table, that's why I think it will happen, as all sides are terrified if they lose.

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NotThePars

NotThePars

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6 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

General elections are regular things, that's the game.

A referendum is seen as a one off, used in special circumstances.

There was quite clearly a message sent out from huge swathes of Britain to the 'political establishment'. If that is somehow just ignored then I really would fear for the future of our democracy (which i know sounds dramatic but you have to look at this from the other side).

If Scotland had voted yes to independence but then somehow a second referendum kept us in because of difficult negotiations there would be civil disobedience, and rightly so.
 

 

The thing is I think there's a path to staying in the EU but that involves those leading the call for a People's Vote to acknowledge the deep-rooted resentment that drove that Leave vote. Now they could either indulge xenophobia and find some way of driving people away from the far right who are always going to outflank them on anti-immigration sentiment, or they could articulate an economic programme that addresses the devastation wrought under Thatcher and ignored under Blair. Obvs Hillary Clinton's brain worms and Tony Blair would rather we shut the borders and reached an accord with the far right but I don't honestly believe xenophobia is the be all and end all for a majority of people that are fed up with the current order. It's just easier for those in charge to indulge in than economic transformation.

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welshbairn

welshbairn

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3 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

General elections are regular things, that's the game.

A referendum is seen as a one off, used in special circumstances.

There was quite clearly a message sent out from huge swathes of Britain to the 'political establishment'. If that is somehow just ignored then I really would fear for the future of our democracy (which i know sounds dramatic but you have to look at this from the other side).

If Scotland had voted yes to independence but then somehow a second referendum kept us in because of difficult negotiations there would be civil disobedience, and rightly so.
 

How is it democratic to ignore the wishes of the people in 2018 in favour of what people thought in 2016? We had a referendum to confirm our membership in 1975. A betrayal of democracy to have another one in 2016 imo. Pointless argument though, a rerun isn't going to happen, I surrender. The next 5 years will be groundhog day, Irish border and hard/soft every fucking day.

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pandarilla

pandarilla

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How is it democratic to ignore the wishes of the people in 2018 in favour of what people thought in 2016? We had a referendum to confirm our membership in 1975. A betrayal of democracy to have another one in 2016 imo. Pointless argument though, a rerun isn't going to happen, I surrender. The next 5 years will be groundhog day, Irish border and hard/soft every fucking day.
Surely you can understand there's a difference between a 4 odd year gap and a 2 or 3 year gap?

Salmond was right when he talked about 'once in a generation'.
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Antlion

Antlion

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18 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

 

The thing is I think there's a path to staying in the EU but that involves those leading the call for a People's Vote to acknowledge the deep-rooted resentment that drove that Leave vote. Now they could either indulge xenophobia and find some way of driving people away from the far right who are always going to outflank them on anti-immigration sentiment, or they could articulate an economic programme that addresses the devastation wrought under Thatcher and ignored under Blair. Obvs Hillary Clinton's brain worms and Tony Blair would rather we shut the borders and reached an accord with the far right but I don't honestly believe xenophobia is the be all and end all for a majority of people that are fed up with the current order. It's just easier for those in charge to indulge in than economic transformation.

UK politicians are cowards. Not one of them will stand up and say “we’ve allowed xenophobia to run riot. We’ve encouraged it. We’ve welcomed a media that blamed Europe for our failings. Brexit was a result of all of that and there’s no way of delivering it, especially not as we promised, without unleashing disaster”.

So Brexit will rumble on, in an unplanned and haphazard way. Xenophobia will go unchecked. When the economy takes a hit, the same politicians will still try and blame the EU for “punishing” poor innocent Britain. The media will continue to help them out.

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welshbairn

welshbairn

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5 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

Surely you can understand there's a difference between a 4 odd year gap and a 2 or 3 year gap?

Salmond was right when he talked about 'once in a generation'.

A gloomy prospect then. Stuck on an isolated island in the Atlantic till I die, decided by people who I think mostly made up their minds from the worst of motives.

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